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I view cliques as alienating, like I said above. Of course I'm for 'justice', but it's such a fuzzy word that people can have different views of what is just.

I view cliques as alienating, like I said above. Of course I'm for 'justice', but it's such a fuzzy word that people can have different views of what is just. If you conducted a gallup poll, what % of Americans do you think self-identify as "I find justice alienating"? Most reasonable people are for justice and caring, and the vast majority aren't out to find people they can label as 'problematic' and chase them off the island.

zxzax 5y ago
>the vast majority aren't out to find people they can label as 'problematic' and chase them off the island. To me that it always the problem that has faced any minority groups anywhere -- it's never obvious to the majority what the alienating behavior is. So they have to painstakingly explain it, and of course some of them will always get accused of overreacting and attacking the majority. What else can be done?
- refenestrator 5y ago
  I suppose we'll have to take it case by case. Sometimes someone was wronged, but much more frequently, they wanted their politics agreed to 100% and someone had a slightly different worldview, let's try to get them fired. There's no consistency, which really ruins the label 'justice' for me. Conservative star wars lady compares conservatives being criticized to the holocaust? Fired. How dare you disrespect the dead. Basecamp people bring the holocaust into an equally stupid argument? They're heroes, everyone else is problematic. Oscar Wilde had a quote about how patriotism was the last refuge of the scoundrel.. maybe we should update it to "calling people toxic is the last refuge of the antisocial". Not that sincere patriots and activists don't exist, of course.
  - zxzax 5y ago
    I personally wouldn't take these incidents on twitter as indicative of anything, there is quite a lot of information missing there. You or I probably don't know the full history of the company or what transpired for it to get to that point, only the people who experienced it firsthand really know that. Social media is its own community that is really good at turning things outside itself into polarization and outrage, it's not what a community manager for some open source project would usually turn towards in order to solve problems within a community. Leave twitter's problems to twitter.

zxzax 5y ago

>the vast majority aren't out to find people they can label as 'problematic' and chase them off the island. To me that it always the problem that has faced any minority groups anywhere -- it's never obvious to the majority what the alienating behavior is. So they have to painstakingly explain it, and of course some of them will always get accused of overreacting and attacking the majority. What else can be done?

refenestrator 5y ago
I suppose we'll have to take it case by case. Sometimes someone was wronged, but much more frequently, they wanted their politics agreed to 100% and someone had a slightly different worldview, let's try to get them fired. There's no consistency, which really ruins the label 'justice' for me. Conservative star wars lady compares conservatives being criticized to the holocaust? Fired. How dare you disrespect the dead. Basecamp people bring the holocaust into an equally stupid argument? They're heroes, everyone else is problematic. Oscar Wilde had a quote about how patriotism was the last refuge of the scoundrel.. maybe we should update it to "calling people toxic is the last refuge of the antisocial". Not that sincere patriots and activists don't exist, of course.
- zxzax 5y ago
  I personally wouldn't take these incidents on twitter as indicative of anything, there is quite a lot of information missing there. You or I probably don't know the full history of the company or what transpired for it to get to that point, only the people who experienced it firsthand really know that. Social media is its own community that is really good at turning things outside itself into polarization and outrage, it's not what a community manager for some open source project would usually turn towards in order to solve problems within a community. Leave twitter's problems to twitter.