5 ms·

I'm not sure if more linguistic diversity will help FLOSS. For a lot of floss software, there isn't even enough documentation in English and looking at communit

by danhor 5y ago

I'm not sure if more linguistic diversity will help FLOSS. For a lot of floss software, there isn't even enough documentation in English and looking at communities that tend to have resources in their own languages (Chinese and Japanese seem for me to be the main ones), there's usually a large divide to the rest of the English speaking floss community, which hurts both sides. For countries with more English speakers (e.g. most European countries) I don't think translations provided to developers will prove beneficial. For example, here in Germany a lot of mcu-related german-language resources are written in the mikrocontroller.net wiki. It has some good content, but it's often very apparent that not much has been updated in the last ~10 years, in many cases misdirecting potential beginners to less-that-optimal progression paths. You can also see a lot of people with programming experience switching their system to English, to easily find resources in case of e.g. obscure errors. The language-mastery issue is real, especially for very young people, but I'm not sure if "forcing" people isn't the better call. At least in my peer group it seems like most interested people became pretty adept at English and I'm not aware of any that gave up because of language issues (although I'm sure there are many examples). The suggestions for more simplified English in the article seem like good ideas to me. Often times the subject matter is complicated enough, even for people who don't have issues understanding the language.

zzo38computer 5y ago
> For a lot of floss software, there isn't even enough documentation in English and looking at communities that tend to have resources in their own languages ... I agree; many projects (both FOSS and non-FOSS) lack sufficient documentation. However, this is the case whether or not it is English; it is another issue. More simplified English might be a good idea. There is what is called Simplified Technical English, but that seems to be for aerospace, and perhaps it could be adapted for computer documentation, too. I am willing to accept contributions of documentation in any language whether English or otherwise for my projects, although I am only writing in English myself, others can write in other languages if they want to do. (However, I generally have no intention to support commands and status messages etc in languages other than English, nor in character encodings other than ASCII.) For names of stuff (and comments) in the source code of the program itself, I do not consider it too important to write in other languages, although people can try to do that if they want to do. At least for my own projects though, I intend to limit the source code to ASCII.
- pauloxnet 5y ago
  Thanks a lot for your feedback. > More simplified English might be a good idea. There is what is called Simplified Technical English, but that seems to be for aerospace, and perhaps it could be adapted for computer documentation, too. I'm happy that you think that the idea in the article is good. I didn't know about the "Simplified Technical English" it seems interesting.
pauloxnet 5y ago
Thanks a lot for you feedback and point of view it's very useful for me. I reply below to some points but only to share better my point of view I tried to wrote in the article. > I'm not sure if more linguistic diversity will help FLOSS. I think linguistic diversity in FLOSS means a more accessible FLOSS world to people that not speak English. > For countries with more English speakers (e.g. most European countries) I don't think translations provided to developers will prove beneficial. But here in Europe (I'm from Italy) not all country have the same level English skills. I also wrote the article thinking to the whole World with so meny country with a low level of instruction. > The language-mastery issue is real, especially for very young people, but I'm not sure if "forcing" people isn't the better call. I don't think in the article I wrote about forcing people. > The suggestions for more simplified English in the article seem like good ideas to me. Thanks, I'm happy you found the idea good.
- foerbert 5y ago
  > I don't think in the article I wrote about forcing people. Not explicitly, but it's essentially the consequence of not increasing language diversity in FLOSS. If you want to get involved, learn English. That's the "forcing" they were talking about.
  - da_big_ghey 5y ago
    it is a pain but force to learn once then done. if we are use the every language then many times a person must deal with this in many language. i learn english enough for to read and some write and no more. language diversity fine for culture but is suck for tech things.
    - woofie11 5y ago
      I hate to say this, but: Think of the children! Seriously. American kids can start to learn to program at age 6. Non-English-speaking kids can do so once they're old enough to know English. Who do you think will have the edge? Plus, there's a ton of coding in all fields. Learning english to be a programmer is perhaps fine, but to be able to analyze data in seemingly EVERY field of endeavor? Or automate basic routine tasks? The language issue is an issue, and one worth solving.
IQunder130 5y ago
I'd argue multilingualism is a bad thing in most repects. There are hardly any problem domains where having multiple equivalent yet incompatible communication protocols is helpful. I'd much rather we all simply switch to English wherever possible, even though it's not my native language.
- pauloxnet 5y ago
  But in this way 4/5 of world population are not able to participate. I don't think this is inclusive and respectful for diversity.
  - IQunder130 5y ago
    This is such a non-argument I'm tempted to call it disingenuous. People speaking different languages is a historical accident, just because it's the situation right now doesn't mean it is anything to strive for. A single shared language allows everybody to participate in the process and not depend on someone having translated this or that particular bit of information from language X to language Y. There's a reason the scientific and business communities have always gravitated toward having a lingua franca. Multilingualism is a barrier in human development that should be overcome, not something to celebrate or protect.

by danhor 5y ago

zzo38computer 5y ago

> For a lot of floss software, there isn't even enough documentation in English and looking at communities that tend to have resources in their own languages ... I agree; many projects (both FOSS and non-FOSS) lack sufficient documentation. However, this is the case whether or not it is English; it is another issue. More simplified English might be a good idea. There is what is called Simplified Technical English, but that seems to be for aerospace, and perhaps it could be adapted for computer documentation, too. I am willing to accept contributions of documentation in any language whether English or otherwise for my projects, although I am only writing in English myself, others can write in other languages if they want to do. (However, I generally have no intention to support commands and status messages etc in languages other than English, nor in character encodings other than ASCII.) For names of stuff (and comments) in the source code of the program itself, I do not consider it too important to write in other languages, although people can try to do that if they want to do. At least for my own projects though, I intend to limit the source code to ASCII.

pauloxnet 5y ago
Thanks a lot for your feedback. > More simplified English might be a good idea. There is what is called Simplified Technical English, but that seems to be for aerospace, and perhaps it could be adapted for computer documentation, too. I'm happy that you think that the idea in the article is good. I didn't know about the "Simplified Technical English" it seems interesting.

pauloxnet 5y ago

Thanks a lot for you feedback and point of view it's very useful for me. I reply below to some points but only to share better my point of view I tried to wrote in the article. > I'm not sure if more linguistic diversity will help FLOSS. I think linguistic diversity in FLOSS means a more accessible FLOSS world to people that not speak English. > For countries with more English speakers (e.g. most European countries) I don't think translations provided to developers will prove beneficial. But here in Europe (I'm from Italy) not all country have the same level English skills. I also wrote the article thinking to the whole World with so meny country with a low level of instruction. > The language-mastery issue is real, especially for very young people, but I'm not sure if "forcing" people isn't the better call. I don't think in the article I wrote about forcing people. > The suggestions for more simplified English in the article seem like good ideas to me. Thanks, I'm happy you found the idea good.

foerbert 5y ago
> I don't think in the article I wrote about forcing people. Not explicitly, but it's essentially the consequence of not increasing language diversity in FLOSS. If you want to get involved, learn English. That's the "forcing" they were talking about.
- da_big_ghey 5y ago
  it is a pain but force to learn once then done. if we are use the every language then many times a person must deal with this in many language. i learn english enough for to read and some write and no more. language diversity fine for culture but is suck for tech things.
  - woofie11 5y ago
    I hate to say this, but: Think of the children! Seriously. American kids can start to learn to program at age 6. Non-English-speaking kids can do so once they're old enough to know English. Who do you think will have the edge? Plus, there's a ton of coding in all fields. Learning english to be a programmer is perhaps fine, but to be able to analyze data in seemingly EVERY field of endeavor? Or automate basic routine tasks? The language issue is an issue, and one worth solving.

IQunder130 5y ago

I'd argue multilingualism is a bad thing in most repects. There are hardly any problem domains where having multiple equivalent yet incompatible communication protocols is helpful. I'd much rather we all simply switch to English wherever possible, even though it's not my native language.

pauloxnet 5y ago
But in this way 4/5 of world population are not able to participate. I don't think this is inclusive and respectful for diversity.
- IQunder130 5y ago
  This is such a non-argument I'm tempted to call it disingenuous. People speaking different languages is a historical accident, just because it's the situation right now doesn't mean it is anything to strive for. A single shared language allows everybody to participate in the process and not depend on someone having translated this or that particular bit of information from language X to language Y. There's a reason the scientific and business communities have always gravitated toward having a lingua franca. Multilingualism is a barrier in human development that should be overcome, not something to celebrate or protect.