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Africa has 54 countries, thousands of languages and 1.2 billion people. As an African, whenever I see this map I'm more astonished by how densely populated Eur

by init 5y ago

Africa has 54 countries, thousands of languages and 1.2 billion people. As an African, whenever I see this map I'm more astonished by how densely populated Europe and India are, how big and populated China is and how homogeneous the US is compared to its size.

jahnu 5y ago
Population density of Europe is 34/km2 Africa is 45/km2 https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/#:~:text=Europe%20ranks%20number%203%20among,87%20people%20per%20mi2 https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-popula...). https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/africa-population/#:~:text=Africa%20Population%20(LIVE)&text=The%20population%20density%20in%20Africa,117%20people%20per%20mi2).&text=The%20median%20age%20in%20Africa%20is%2019.7years https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/africa-popula....
- Retric 5y ago
  That really depends on where you draw the borders on Europe. The population density of the EU is 105 people per km2. Include some or all of Russia and things look rather different. Similarly, Finland is 8% of the EU’s land area but only has 16.3 people per km2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_U...
  - samatman 5y ago
    That has to be including all of Russia as part of "Eastern Europe" (indeed, if you drill down into the data, that's what's happening). When we're talking about geography, you can't include anything east of the Urals in the European subcontinent.
    - otabdeveloper4 5y ago
      The Urals as a border is purely political and historical in nature. It has no particular geographic significance.
      - bilbo0s 5y ago
        Huh? In Geology class they teach that the Urals formed about a quarter of a billion years ago when Europe and the Khazak land masses collided. I know this because we had to do a group paper on why such an old mountain range would be so unusually high. (Long story and not important.) Point is that though my degree wasn't in geology, and I'm only going from memory, I'm 99.999% certain that the Urals are the Urals for a critically meaningful geographic reason. At least, geologically speaking. Of course, if this is all just political, then you can take any borders you wish to be Europe. I was only pointing out that if we're talking about landmasses in the geological sense, then the commenter was correct, Europe clearly does not extend past the Urals. Scientifically speaking.
        Retric 5y ago
        In terms of geology it’s all just the Eurasia pate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Plate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Plate Europe has always just been an political/economic entity as overland passage to Asia is difficult. Which makes the border completely arbitrary with various historic maps placing it in different areas. That said plate technics is surprisingly recent, reaching a fairly modern form and acceptance in ~1960’s.
- init 5y ago
  I'm referring to the European countries included in the visualization.
JackFr 5y ago
When you say the US is homogenous for it’s size, are you referring to the physical geography or the demographic make up of the population, or something else entirely? (I think I would disagree, but good faith requires I actually try to understand what you meant before I take issue with it.)
- xpe 5y ago
  It seems to me the commenter is referring to the number of languages and countries in a land mass.
- dnautics 5y ago
  I think america is diverse, and shockingly homogenous given its diversity. For example, chinatown in NYC does not seem particularly different from chinatown in SF. Yes, the midwest calmer and the south is friendlier, the east is more uptight and the west is more chillaxed, and the cuisine is different in different parts of the country, but these are pretty much details at the edges. Everyone speaks english, the low-end labor speaks spanish, african-americans are discriminated against, etc.
  - t0mas88 5y ago
    To me (an outsider from Europe) the US doesn't feel homogenous at all. Compare New York to Taxas or California to South Carolina and they feel as much as different as for example Germany and Spain. With the only difference being that all US states share the English language and Europe has different languages, but even that difference is slowly reducing. For example the French, famous for not speaking English 20 years ago now actually do it very well if they're under 40 or 50 or so. And similar for Germany.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      Eh, the difference between those all will have more to do with population density than their location. Rural New York feels more like rural South Carolina than it does NYC.
    - 5y ago
DevKoala 5y ago
In which sense is the USA homogenous?
- mgerullis 5y ago
  Language, currency, jurisdiction (to large extends), media… An American from Idaho will be able to communicate, trade and watch the same tv as someone in Vermont, whereas a person from Malawi will not be able to do any of these things with a person in Guinea
  - joshuaengler 5y ago
    You're comparing a continent with a country. A person in Canada has very little in common with those in Mexico and/or Panama, etc. The same could be said about most continents.
    - mgerullis 5y ago
      I was answering the question how the USA are considered homogenous, not how the Americas are.
      - lhorie 5y ago
        GP is saying that if you're comparing to the US, it would make more sense to compare to e.g. Ethiopia (a single country with several ethnical groups and languages) than compare Malawi to Guinea (two different countries, thousands of miles away from each other)
        tedunangst 5y ago
        Vermont and Idaho are also thousands of miles away from each other, a distance not achievable within Ethiopia's borders. I think people are missing the point, so to make it clear, in the US, you can move from Los Angeles to New York (not even extreme ends of the country) and experience the same culture, language, TV shows, cell phone, etc. at both ends. That would be the same as moving from Madrid to Moscow, or Lagos to Khartoum.
sangnoir 5y ago
I'm always surprised to hear people say "The world is overpopulated" - I'm thinking there's plenty of room to grow in regions that live sustainably.
- bandana 5y ago
  What would those regions be ? The Sahara isn't overpopulated if you look at the density of population, but it can't really sustain anybody. I'm sure there are some rain forests left to cut so we can grow more food for 1 or 2 billions extra people, but what's the end goal ? The world is overpopulated.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    What are you measuring to determine over or underpopulation? Food production? We grow more food that is required to feed current population, much of world's farming is not efficient, done without modern equipment, etx., and then there is the subject of meat - if we stopped growing feed for animals, and instead seitch to vegetarian diet, we could feed a lot more people. Then there is the argument that glasshouses are 10x as productive as open fields, so if we were to use them predominantly, we could return land to forests.
    - e3bc54b2 5y ago
      The modern agriculture just means automating depleting natural aquifers and using up topsoil and abusing chemicals at massive scale. Its the agricultural equivalent of optimizing for next quarter, but losing out on next decade.
      - eru 5y ago
        How would greenhouses use up top-soil?
        JPLeRouzic 5y ago
        Some places when seen from planes looks literally as vitrified, for example in Netherlands.
k__ 5y ago
This is especially funny when I look at my home country Germany. It's one of EU countries with the densest population, but it doesn't feel that way. Especially the east is very empty in the countryside.
- SiempreViernes 5y ago
  This is very much a question of reference points, I'm sure even the Belgians will insist there are sparsely populated areas in their country :) Scrolling around on a map of Germany, I could find a forest about 10 km across in the eastern bit that only looked to have a few roads marked on the map. Go into northern Sweden and you'll be drawing completely empty circles 50 km across...
birdyrooster 5y ago
What does it mean to be an African? Is there unifying culture of all of Africa? Like when I say I am an American, I don't mean the continent, I am talking about living in the US, but when someone calls themselves an African, what can I glean from that other than they live on a large, heterogenous continent?
- philipswood 5y ago
  As a fellow African I struggle to answer the question! I find it interesting that your (valid to you and a commonly used use case) of "being American" excludes Canada, Mexico, etc. ... (actually all of South America). There isn't a common culture. I'm also acutely aware that my definition is extremely unlikely to be shared in North Africa, Central Africa, even in another province of my own country). All that said "being African" parses with a lot more emotional and ideological content than just geography. There's a hint of pride at the grandeur and diversity of the landscape and peoples, a dollop of hope for a brighter future given our huge potential (despite our poverty we have so much more stuff than many other countries), there's a dash of injustice of colonial history and exploitation. When I work with someone from Nigeria or Kenia or I interact with someone who is effectively a refugee from DRC or Zimbabwe - I can honestly say we seem to have something in common with our feeling about Africa.
- industriousthou 5y ago
  I think you'll find lot's of people from North and South America would take issue with your definition of "American".
  - birdyrooster 5y ago
    Totally but they would also know I was just speaking of the US. I don’t have any frame of reference for someone who says they are African.
- slim 5y ago
  It's an identity. It attracts people who have it and repels people who don't have it. With efficient communication channels around it you can eventually build homogeneity. (I'm African)
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
A related map comparison that blew my mind and left me feeling I understood things a little better, is East coast of USA vs Japan: https://photoguide.jp/log/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/JapanUSAmap.jpg https://photoguide.jp/log/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/JapanUS...
whiddershins 5y ago
The US isn’t very homogenous, it is merely depicted that way in media.
artur_makly 5y ago
Check out these latest photos taken all across various USA cities by NYTimes photographers: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/us/scenes-from-americas-reopening.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/us/scenes-from-americas-r... It's quite varied for a homogeneous country.
slim 5y ago
America understood very early on the power of story telling to build homogeneity. Medias are not just entertainement. They are the back bone of a nation.

by init 5y ago

jahnu 5y ago

Population density of Europe is 34/km2 Africa is 45/km2 https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/#:~:text=Europe%20ranks%20number%203%20among,87%20people%20per%20mi2 https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-popula...). https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/africa-population/#:~:text=Africa%20Population%20(LIVE)&text=The%20population%20density%20in%20Africa,117%20people%20per%20mi2).&text=The%20median%20age%20in%20Africa%20is%2019.7years https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/africa-popula....

Retric 5y ago
That really depends on where you draw the borders on Europe. The population density of the EU is 105 people per km2. Include some or all of Russia and things look rather different. Similarly, Finland is 8% of the EU’s land area but only has 16.3 people per km2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_U...
- samatman 5y ago
  That has to be including all of Russia as part of "Eastern Europe" (indeed, if you drill down into the data, that's what's happening). When we're talking about geography, you can't include anything east of the Urals in the European subcontinent.
  - otabdeveloper4 5y ago
    The Urals as a border is purely political and historical in nature. It has no particular geographic significance.
    - bilbo0s 5y ago
      Huh? In Geology class they teach that the Urals formed about a quarter of a billion years ago when Europe and the Khazak land masses collided. I know this because we had to do a group paper on why such an old mountain range would be so unusually high. (Long story and not important.) Point is that though my degree wasn't in geology, and I'm only going from memory, I'm 99.999% certain that the Urals are the Urals for a critically meaningful geographic reason. At least, geologically speaking. Of course, if this is all just political, then you can take any borders you wish to be Europe. I was only pointing out that if we're talking about landmasses in the geological sense, then the commenter was correct, Europe clearly does not extend past the Urals. Scientifically speaking.
      - Retric 5y ago
        In terms of geology it’s all just the Eurasia pate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Plate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Plate Europe has always just been an political/economic entity as overland passage to Asia is difficult. Which makes the border completely arbitrary with various historic maps placing it in different areas. That said plate technics is surprisingly recent, reaching a fairly modern form and acceptance in ~1960’s.
init 5y ago
I'm referring to the European countries included in the visualization.

JackFr 5y ago

When you say the US is homogenous for it’s size, are you referring to the physical geography or the demographic make up of the population, or something else entirely? (I think I would disagree, but good faith requires I actually try to understand what you meant before I take issue with it.)

xpe 5y ago
It seems to me the commenter is referring to the number of languages and countries in a land mass.
dnautics 5y ago
I think america is diverse, and shockingly homogenous given its diversity. For example, chinatown in NYC does not seem particularly different from chinatown in SF. Yes, the midwest calmer and the south is friendlier, the east is more uptight and the west is more chillaxed, and the cuisine is different in different parts of the country, but these are pretty much details at the edges. Everyone speaks english, the low-end labor speaks spanish, african-americans are discriminated against, etc.
- t0mas88 5y ago
  To me (an outsider from Europe) the US doesn't feel homogenous at all. Compare New York to Taxas or California to South Carolina and they feel as much as different as for example Germany and Spain. With the only difference being that all US states share the English language and Europe has different languages, but even that difference is slowly reducing. For example the French, famous for not speaking English 20 years ago now actually do it very well if they're under 40 or 50 or so. And similar for Germany.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    Eh, the difference between those all will have more to do with population density than their location. Rural New York feels more like rural South Carolina than it does NYC.
  - 5y ago

DevKoala 5y ago

In which sense is the USA homogenous?

mgerullis 5y ago
Language, currency, jurisdiction (to large extends), media… An American from Idaho will be able to communicate, trade and watch the same tv as someone in Vermont, whereas a person from Malawi will not be able to do any of these things with a person in Guinea
- joshuaengler 5y ago
  You're comparing a continent with a country. A person in Canada has very little in common with those in Mexico and/or Panama, etc. The same could be said about most continents.
  - mgerullis 5y ago
    I was answering the question how the USA are considered homogenous, not how the Americas are.
    - lhorie 5y ago
      GP is saying that if you're comparing to the US, it would make more sense to compare to e.g. Ethiopia (a single country with several ethnical groups and languages) than compare Malawi to Guinea (two different countries, thousands of miles away from each other)
      - tedunangst 5y ago
        Vermont and Idaho are also thousands of miles away from each other, a distance not achievable within Ethiopia's borders. I think people are missing the point, so to make it clear, in the US, you can move from Los Angeles to New York (not even extreme ends of the country) and experience the same culture, language, TV shows, cell phone, etc. at both ends. That would be the same as moving from Madrid to Moscow, or Lagos to Khartoum.

sangnoir 5y ago

I'm always surprised to hear people say "The world is overpopulated" - I'm thinking there's plenty of room to grow in regions that live sustainably.

bandana 5y ago
What would those regions be ? The Sahara isn't overpopulated if you look at the density of population, but it can't really sustain anybody. I'm sure there are some rain forests left to cut so we can grow more food for 1 or 2 billions extra people, but what's the end goal ? The world is overpopulated.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  What are you measuring to determine over or underpopulation? Food production? We grow more food that is required to feed current population, much of world's farming is not efficient, done without modern equipment, etx., and then there is the subject of meat - if we stopped growing feed for animals, and instead seitch to vegetarian diet, we could feed a lot more people. Then there is the argument that glasshouses are 10x as productive as open fields, so if we were to use them predominantly, we could return land to forests.
  - e3bc54b2 5y ago
    The modern agriculture just means automating depleting natural aquifers and using up topsoil and abusing chemicals at massive scale. Its the agricultural equivalent of optimizing for next quarter, but losing out on next decade.
    - eru 5y ago
      How would greenhouses use up top-soil?
      - JPLeRouzic 5y ago
        Some places when seen from planes looks literally as vitrified, for example in Netherlands.

k__ 5y ago

This is especially funny when I look at my home country Germany. It's one of EU countries with the densest population, but it doesn't feel that way. Especially the east is very empty in the countryside.

SiempreViernes 5y ago
This is very much a question of reference points, I'm sure even the Belgians will insist there are sparsely populated areas in their country :) Scrolling around on a map of Germany, I could find a forest about 10 km across in the eastern bit that only looked to have a few roads marked on the map. Go into northern Sweden and you'll be drawing completely empty circles 50 km across...

birdyrooster 5y ago

What does it mean to be an African? Is there unifying culture of all of Africa? Like when I say I am an American, I don't mean the continent, I am talking about living in the US, but when someone calls themselves an African, what can I glean from that other than they live on a large, heterogenous continent?

philipswood 5y ago
As a fellow African I struggle to answer the question! I find it interesting that your (valid to you and a commonly used use case) of "being American" excludes Canada, Mexico, etc. ... (actually all of South America). There isn't a common culture. I'm also acutely aware that my definition is extremely unlikely to be shared in North Africa, Central Africa, even in another province of my own country). All that said "being African" parses with a lot more emotional and ideological content than just geography. There's a hint of pride at the grandeur and diversity of the landscape and peoples, a dollop of hope for a brighter future given our huge potential (despite our poverty we have so much more stuff than many other countries), there's a dash of injustice of colonial history and exploitation. When I work with someone from Nigeria or Kenia or I interact with someone who is effectively a refugee from DRC or Zimbabwe - I can honestly say we seem to have something in common with our feeling about Africa.
industriousthou 5y ago
I think you'll find lot's of people from North and South America would take issue with your definition of "American".
- birdyrooster 5y ago
  Totally but they would also know I was just speaking of the US. I don’t have any frame of reference for someone who says they are African.
slim 5y ago
It's an identity. It attracts people who have it and repels people who don't have it. With efficient communication channels around it you can eventually build homogeneity. (I'm African)

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

A related map comparison that blew my mind and left me feeling I understood things a little better, is East coast of USA vs Japan: https://photoguide.jp/log/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/JapanUSAmap.jpg https://photoguide.jp/log/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/JapanUS...

whiddershins 5y ago

The US isn’t very homogenous, it is merely depicted that way in media.

artur_makly 5y ago

Check out these latest photos taken all across various USA cities by NYTimes photographers: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/us/scenes-from-americas-reopening.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/us/scenes-from-americas-r... It's quite varied for a homogeneous country.

slim 5y ago

America understood very early on the power of story telling to build homogeneity. Medias are not just entertainement. They are the back bone of a nation.