5 ms·
I like playing games. I like playing them a lot but the reality is that these days I don't do it that much. I'm about as far from a hardcore gamer as it's possi
by bartread 5y ago
I like playing games. I like playing them a lot but the reality is that these days I don't do it that much. I'm about as far from a hardcore gamer as it's possible to get, although the games I tend to play overlap significantly with what more "serious" gamers might choose to play (I'm not really at all into the category of games generally described as "casual" these days).
That community is full to the gunwales with people who will complain endlessly about framerates and dropped frames, both in console space and PC space. Seriously. People piss and moan endlessly about this stuff. I find it pretty hard to take because I've been playing games since the 8-bit era and, back then, your typical 3D game had rudimentary wireframe or filled polygon graphics (if you were lucky enough to own a 16-bit machine), polygon counts were incredibly low, and texture fills were practically non-existent. And even with all these simplifications they'd often run at low double-digit frame rates, often dropping down into single digits. Nevertheless for the kind of games they were they remained playable. So I find the contemporary over-obsession with framerate and slowdown a little grating. Even so, I can absolutely see why it's an issue for - particularly - online shooters and racers.
Why do I bring this up?
Google stadia streams games the way Netflix streams films and TV shows. I'm right now looking at a ping trace for a server at a data centre in London, about 60 miles from where I'm sat. Mostly it's in the 16 - 20ms range, but there are quite a few ~30ms packets in there. At 60fps that's typically 1 - 2 frames of latency. This is over a BT fibre broadband connection.
If I switch to tethering to my mobile phone, where I can get a strong 4G connection, my ping time to the same box goes up to, at best ~50ms, and varies wildly peaking all the way out at around 180ms, with the odd outlier packet in the 200 - 250ms range. At 60fps that's typically 3 - 11 frames of latency, and 15 - 16 frames of latency in the worst case.
Now you could argue that for casual, and possibly even some less casual, single player games that doesn't matter. And that's true. But that's not the marketing for Stadia that I was exposed to, where Google were touting a lot of more "serious" or "hardcore" games. For shooters or racing games those latency figures are just way too high, and even on my more stable broadband connection the low ping times aren't stable enough for a great playing experience.
Going back to the Netflix analogy, I generally get decent resolutions, and for at least some of the time (where content supports it) I can view in 4k. But there are drop-offs. I'd expect to see something similar with Google Stadia but, whilst this is tolerable for film and TV most of the time, it's going to make for a pretty annoying gaming experience.
Maybe one day a service like Google Stadia can be a success but it's too early: right now the connectivity isn't nearly good enough for it to sell in the kind of numbers that it would need to in order to be that success. This service is like one of the dinosaurs in The Sound of Thunder: it's already dead but it's too stupid to realise it.
- whateveracct 5y agoPretty much all the old classics hum at a cool 60fps. 3 frames of latency borders on unplayable if you want to make a game that flirts with human reaction time - one popular sweet spot of "fun" in the design space. You can definitely feel 2 or 3 frames of added latency at 60fps. No matter the game. And the games of old did run at 60fps and there's definitely value to the ones that do nowadays too. Even if the AAA games moved away from low-latency gaming in general.
- Orphis 5y agoIt really depends on how the game is made. If the game knows what latency you have, it can compensate for it.
- whateveracct 5y agoTo a point, yeah. But only to a point.
- gundmc 5y agoHonest question: Have you actually tried Stadia? You have a lot of assumptions and theoreticals in your post, but for all of Stadia's shortcomings the streaming tech is _incredibly_ good. A ton of people will run mental calculations, assert it must add at least x ms of latency so it can't possibly work, but just try it. It's free. It works. I have been PC gaming for 25 years. I have a $3k+ rig with a 3080. I'm very attuned to input lag and fidelity. Is Stadia as good as playing locally? No, of course not, but it's far far better than I imagined it could be. You might be surprised.
- anonymousab 5y agoA difference of even 2-4f in a fighting game can make all the world of difference, both in balance and in the simple feel of the game. Games have to be designed for an expected amount of delay, which itself is often a design component of how they expect the game to function online (i.e. type and implementation of netcode). So what did we see with that genre on Stadia? Well, Stadia not only adds different input/response latency for both players in a fighting game, but it also doesn't colocate the matches to the same server in between players (or same running game instance); so the matches have the standard lag between Stadia data centers on top of the user <-> stadia delay. Unsatisfying for both players, and inferior to alternative ways of playing those games. Ironically, player-led initiatives for that kind of hosting - to deal with poor netcode of older fighting games - have shown that the very idea is sound, and can deliver a better experience e.g. Parsec game tournaments. Not optimal, but better. Google has simply failed to deliver. Part of the problem is up to the developers to solve, but the buck stops with Google. Stadia needs to deliver a world class experience on its merits, and it needs to give developers the tools and guidance and working examples - if not real games - showing how to do so. And it needed to be doing that on Day -1. Or they can just say "Stadia is for genres X, Y and Z", and only spend their time and money courting games and developers in those genres, and everyone involved would probably be better off for it. They could have - and still can - set grand but realistic expectations and deliver on them.