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> Copy what works and innovate on top of it I think the main gripe with China's process is that they don't do the latter. They produce replica's then herald th

> Copy what works and innovate on top of it I think the main gripe with China's process is that they don't do the latter. They produce replica's then herald them as original works of the mightiest country on the planet. Everyone everywhere steals, but China does it with a little more 'F-U' than most countries, and tend to use what they steal to oppress. I spent a few years working for a defense contractor out of college, and Chinese IPs were probing every internet facing server we had 24/7. https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-tactical/chinese-knockoffs-us-weapons/ https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-tactical/chinese-knock... https://futurism.com/the-byte/china-is-working-on-what-looks-like-a-clone-of-spacexs-starship https://futurism.com/the-byte/china-is-working-on-what-looks... > Industrial Espionage.... > Crying "No fair! You stole it!" sounds more like a petulant child than anything else. Pointing it out as a matter of economic and national security is far from a childish thing to do. If you're government is willing to subjugate people into slave labor at a massive scale while at the same time stealing the IP born from fairer societies, that creates an uneven competitive landscape, which ultimately works against the fairer societies. Think of it this way: Safety nets cost money, but the return you get is smarter people taking bigger risks and creating new useful things. If you get all the benefits of that (IP) and don't have to pay, you will win, and create a crappier world in the process. I'd liken it to brain drain. You spend all this money educating people only to have the return on that investment go elsewhere. I know the immediate response to this is going to be "But America did such and such...". I don't care what America did. When someone is on trial for stealing a car, talking about how someone else stole a bike isn't a defense.

Ziggy_Zaggy 5y ago
This response it exactly correct. Thanks for taking the time to spell this out.
rland 5y ago
America literally did exactly what China is doing now, when it was the upstart and Britain was the industrial powerhouse of the world. Americans stole British IP and built an industrial economy with that technology. All the while implementing perhaps the largest and cruelest human trafficking operation ever conceived. How are all the other countries, who follow US IP laws and trade regulations, pulling themselves out of poverty? Are they doing it as fast as China is? It is always in the interest of a more developed country to set IP terms, because they own the patents and the manufacturing processes, and they can advantage themselves at the expense of everyone else. Look at how Mexico fared in NAFTA, or what the terms of the TPP were. All of this is completely beside the point of who has a more "fair" or more "just" regime. China did what they needed to do to develop their economy: steal American IP and ignore American trade laws and patents.
- BobbyJo 5y ago
  First, you can't compare the wealth an advantage IP represents now to what it was before the 1960s. It's a ridiculous comparison when you look at the amount of economic activity that depended on it. Second, the list of underdeveloped countries that care about US IP laws is non-existent. The US doesn't care. It only matters when the country is wealthy and advanced enough to do something with the IP that it matters. Third, I don't see how it being in the US's interest to protect their IP makes protecting the IP wrong. Forth, you've rebutted none of my actual points, and ignored my last sentence.
walty8 5y ago
> I know the immediate response to this is going to be "But America did such and such...". I don't care what America did. When someone is on trial for stealing a car, talking about how someone else stole a bike isn't a defense. Well, this actually reminded me the case of Apple issued Microsoft for the infringement in 1988 [1], and Apple did not win because the Mac UI was actually 'referenced' from Xerox as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Micros....
- BobbyJo 5y ago
  That wasn't a case of 'they stole something too', though. That was a case of 'this thing they're saying I stole from them, we both stole from someone else'. A lil bit different.

Ziggy_Zaggy 5y ago

This response it exactly correct. Thanks for taking the time to spell this out.

rland 5y ago

America literally did exactly what China is doing now, when it was the upstart and Britain was the industrial powerhouse of the world. Americans stole British IP and built an industrial economy with that technology. All the while implementing perhaps the largest and cruelest human trafficking operation ever conceived. How are all the other countries, who follow US IP laws and trade regulations, pulling themselves out of poverty? Are they doing it as fast as China is? It is always in the interest of a more developed country to set IP terms, because they own the patents and the manufacturing processes, and they can advantage themselves at the expense of everyone else. Look at how Mexico fared in NAFTA, or what the terms of the TPP were. All of this is completely beside the point of who has a more "fair" or more "just" regime. China did what they needed to do to develop their economy: steal American IP and ignore American trade laws and patents.

BobbyJo 5y ago
First, you can't compare the wealth an advantage IP represents now to what it was before the 1960s. It's a ridiculous comparison when you look at the amount of economic activity that depended on it. Second, the list of underdeveloped countries that care about US IP laws is non-existent. The US doesn't care. It only matters when the country is wealthy and advanced enough to do something with the IP that it matters. Third, I don't see how it being in the US's interest to protect their IP makes protecting the IP wrong. Forth, you've rebutted none of my actual points, and ignored my last sentence.

walty8 5y ago

> I know the immediate response to this is going to be "But America did such and such...". I don't care what America did. When someone is on trial for stealing a car, talking about how someone else stole a bike isn't a defense. Well, this actually reminded me the case of Apple issued Microsoft for the infringement in 1988 [1], and Apple did not win because the Mac UI was actually 'referenced' from Xerox as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Micros....

BobbyJo 5y ago
That wasn't a case of 'they stole something too', though. That was a case of 'this thing they're saying I stole from them, we both stole from someone else'. A lil bit different.