8 ms·

A life sentence for participating in a cold-blooded murder spree is something I imagine most members of society would see as just.

Arainach 5y ago
For a mentally capable adult, perhaps. We have plenty of research to show that the brains of juveniles are wired differently. That doesn't mean no punishment, but it means that a life sentence is excessive and rehabilitation should be tried.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  So, "Deserves" still applies here, just less.
- iratewizard 5y ago
  The overwhelming majority of juveniles do not commit cold-blooded murder like this. Do you believe that this person is not a psychopath? Has any real ground been broken to take violent psychopaths and "cure" their condition? I've seen no evidence of this, and I don't see rehabilitation as anything more than a tool that is useful in certain circumstances.
  - alogray 5y ago
    Most of us on here are in tech rather than psychiatry and not fit to make a call on whether someone is a psycopath, especially from a single article about them that doesn’t really focus on their mental state.
- thrwhizzle 5y ago
  He went on a robbing and stabbing spree that ended up with six critical injuries and two deaths. Maybe you don’t think he deserves his punishment. I certainly do. The type of person who would go on a stabbing spree for wine money is not the kind of person who has any place in society I want to live.
  - daenz 5y ago
    Furthermore, if this is the type of thing that someone has to "learn" not to do at 15, what other horrible things do they still need to learn not to do? It is not worth having these people live around others while they learn these lessons at the cost of innocents around them.
- polartx 5y ago
  When you think about it, there was enough complex decisions taking place to point towards a developed (albeit devoid of conscience) mind in control. A childs reasoning would more likely follow this kind of path: Child wants alcohol->storekeeper has alcohol->child capable of coercion by force (ie stabbing)—>child gets alcohol from storekeeper However, instead he did this: Young man wants alcohol->storekeeper has alcohol—>alcohol costs money that young man does not have—>innocent passerby’s have money—> young man capable of coercion by force (ie stabbing)—>young man stabs innocent passerby’s for their money—>Evaluate whether amount stolen is enough for alcohol, if not, repeat previous steps, if so—->young man gets alcohol from storekeeper Good decisions are not proof of brain development, however complex ones are. Given the evidence I would say he was rightly judged as an adult.
  - daenz 5y ago
    You make a good point, but I think there is a simpler argument for why he was rightfully tried as an adult: murder is an adult action.
    - alogray 5y ago
      Are there crimes that are “juvenile actions”? Would adults who commit them be tried as juveniles given that it is a juvenile action?
  - mekkkkkk 5y ago
    IIRC, empathy isnt fully developed until the early twenties. Even if you are capable of having sophisticated trains of thoughts you might not realize the scope of consequences from your actions. Life without parole seems like it should be reserved for those who are beyond saving. Not sure a 15 year old boy would classify as such. It all depends on your view of retribution vs rehabilitation though.
- taneq 5y ago
  Aww he's just a kid... no need to get upset about him stabbing a bunch of people to death now is there?
  - alogray 5y ago
    That is not what the person you replied to what the person you replied to said and you know that. Intentionally misconstruing what others say is something best left for Reddit.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Society is rarely for lower sentences. I find that leftist wokes tend to live in their own bubble. They are painfully reminded of it when there is a survey about the death penalty. Luckily the justice system doesn't operate on the whims of the people like in that story of Jesus' trial.
- mekkkkkk 5y ago
  Historically, "society" has been huge fans of corporal punishment, elaborate executions and torture. Not sure you wanna go down that road, buddy.
  - LordDragonfang 5y ago
    Not to mention slavery, lynchings, and the consequence-free murder of gender and sexual minorities. There are many things that are today considered barbaric that were once popular, and this is almost certainly a trend that will extend into the future.
- JshWright 5y ago
  lol, I work as a paramedic. How many fatal stabbings have you been to? Especially ones where it was your job to try to save the victims life? Unless your number is higher than mine, save your "woke leftist bubble" argument. My position is that no 15 year old deserves a life sentence _without parole_. Are there 15 year olds who commit crimes that truly reflect their irredeemable nature? Perhaps. I expect they are in the minority though, and that's the whole point of a parole board (as flawed a system as that is).

Arainach 5y ago

For a mentally capable adult, perhaps. We have plenty of research to show that the brains of juveniles are wired differently. That doesn't mean no punishment, but it means that a life sentence is excessive and rehabilitation should be tried.

systemvoltage 5y ago
So, "Deserves" still applies here, just less.
iratewizard 5y ago
The overwhelming majority of juveniles do not commit cold-blooded murder like this. Do you believe that this person is not a psychopath? Has any real ground been broken to take violent psychopaths and "cure" their condition? I've seen no evidence of this, and I don't see rehabilitation as anything more than a tool that is useful in certain circumstances.
- alogray 5y ago
  Most of us on here are in tech rather than psychiatry and not fit to make a call on whether someone is a psycopath, especially from a single article about them that doesn’t really focus on their mental state.
thrwhizzle 5y ago
He went on a robbing and stabbing spree that ended up with six critical injuries and two deaths. Maybe you don’t think he deserves his punishment. I certainly do. The type of person who would go on a stabbing spree for wine money is not the kind of person who has any place in society I want to live.
- daenz 5y ago
  Furthermore, if this is the type of thing that someone has to "learn" not to do at 15, what other horrible things do they still need to learn not to do? It is not worth having these people live around others while they learn these lessons at the cost of innocents around them.
polartx 5y ago
When you think about it, there was enough complex decisions taking place to point towards a developed (albeit devoid of conscience) mind in control. A childs reasoning would more likely follow this kind of path: Child wants alcohol->storekeeper has alcohol->child capable of coercion by force (ie stabbing)—>child gets alcohol from storekeeper However, instead he did this: Young man wants alcohol->storekeeper has alcohol—>alcohol costs money that young man does not have—>innocent passerby’s have money—> young man capable of coercion by force (ie stabbing)—>young man stabs innocent passerby’s for their money—>Evaluate whether amount stolen is enough for alcohol, if not, repeat previous steps, if so—->young man gets alcohol from storekeeper Good decisions are not proof of brain development, however complex ones are. Given the evidence I would say he was rightly judged as an adult.
- daenz 5y ago
  You make a good point, but I think there is a simpler argument for why he was rightfully tried as an adult: murder is an adult action.
  - alogray 5y ago
    Are there crimes that are “juvenile actions”? Would adults who commit them be tried as juveniles given that it is a juvenile action?
- mekkkkkk 5y ago
  IIRC, empathy isnt fully developed until the early twenties. Even if you are capable of having sophisticated trains of thoughts you might not realize the scope of consequences from your actions. Life without parole seems like it should be reserved for those who are beyond saving. Not sure a 15 year old boy would classify as such. It all depends on your view of retribution vs rehabilitation though.
taneq 5y ago
Aww he's just a kid... no need to get upset about him stabbing a bunch of people to death now is there?
- alogray 5y ago
  That is not what the person you replied to what the person you replied to said and you know that. Intentionally misconstruing what others say is something best left for Reddit.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

Society is rarely for lower sentences. I find that leftist wokes tend to live in their own bubble. They are painfully reminded of it when there is a survey about the death penalty. Luckily the justice system doesn't operate on the whims of the people like in that story of Jesus' trial.

mekkkkkk 5y ago
Historically, "society" has been huge fans of corporal punishment, elaborate executions and torture. Not sure you wanna go down that road, buddy.
- LordDragonfang 5y ago
  Not to mention slavery, lynchings, and the consequence-free murder of gender and sexual minorities. There are many things that are today considered barbaric that were once popular, and this is almost certainly a trend that will extend into the future.
JshWright 5y ago
lol, I work as a paramedic. How many fatal stabbings have you been to? Especially ones where it was your job to try to save the victims life? Unless your number is higher than mine, save your "woke leftist bubble" argument. My position is that no 15 year old deserves a life sentence _without parole_. Are there 15 year olds who commit crimes that truly reflect their irredeemable nature? Perhaps. I expect they are in the minority though, and that's the whole point of a parole board (as flawed a system as that is).