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Most programing languages old enough have that problem: C#, php, C++. And modern js does not look crazy, it's the es5 and bellow that was a bit wacky. Typescri

by nsonha 5y ago

Most programing languages old enough have that problem: C#, php, C++. And modern js does not look crazy, it's the es5 and bellow that was a bit wacky. Typescript is much cleaner than the 3 languages I mentioned, my opinion.

TchoBeer 5y ago
Python is pretty old and (imo) doesn't have that problem
- finiteseries 5y ago
  That’s probably why they said most, not all.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  Oh, yes it does. Built-in method and class naming is wildly inconsistent. OO is bolted on, typing is bolted on. While not "the language," the GIL and what it means for parallelism (multiprocessing is a shit show) was a mistake.
  - nsonha 5y ago
    I know about these things. The reason I did not use python as an example is that syntax is kind of neat. I dont think it's something to be too proud of if the only thing nice about your language is the syntax.
Rapzid 5y ago
> And modern js does not look crazy Heh, read the VueJS 3 code base. I haven't done much at the level of optimization I think is going on there, and this is Evan's third iteration so I'm guessing there is a lot of insights baked into it, but dang if it's not hard to wrap your head around. Even if you check it out and use VSCode to try to figure it out. Individual sections of code make sense. But it's like a deconstructed hamburger and you've never seen a hamburger in your life.
- kaba0 5y ago
  That’s on the library, not the language itself. I’m not particularly fond of JS, but I think it has become a very acceptable language over the years.
- nsonha 5y ago
  this is my opinion but you pick a library that clings onto an outdated programming model (markup-centric, or string-based programming as I'd like to call it), to judge modern javascript.
hajile 5y ago
ES5 syntax itself has nothing particularly strange. It’s bog standard C/Java syntax. If there’s any complaints to be had, they would be the semantics of using the syntax (though maybe that’s actually what you mean). The worst feature (type coercion) was an intentional addition because many developers asked for it and Eich (to his later regret) went along. The only other truly weird features came from twisting prototypal inheritance into something vaguely Java-ish. These actually became more convoluted with a whole extra layer of weirdness while once again trying to force traditional classes on top. Unfortunately, devs from other languages think they’re the same and they mostly work as expected right up into things fall apart (usually when the hole they’ve dug is massive). In truth, the biggest mistake was not going with scheme. If they had, the rest would be easy from language extension to adding lower level abstractions to compiling various languages to it would all be easier.

by nsonha 5y ago

TchoBeer 5y ago

Python is pretty old and (imo) doesn't have that problem

finiteseries 5y ago
That’s probably why they said most, not all.
dehrmann 5y ago
Oh, yes it does. Built-in method and class naming is wildly inconsistent. OO is bolted on, typing is bolted on. While not "the language," the GIL and what it means for parallelism (multiprocessing is a shit show) was a mistake.
- nsonha 5y ago
  I know about these things. The reason I did not use python as an example is that syntax is kind of neat. I dont think it's something to be too proud of if the only thing nice about your language is the syntax.

Rapzid 5y ago

> And modern js does not look crazy Heh, read the VueJS 3 code base. I haven't done much at the level of optimization I think is going on there, and this is Evan's third iteration so I'm guessing there is a lot of insights baked into it, but dang if it's not hard to wrap your head around. Even if you check it out and use VSCode to try to figure it out. Individual sections of code make sense. But it's like a deconstructed hamburger and you've never seen a hamburger in your life.

kaba0 5y ago
That’s on the library, not the language itself. I’m not particularly fond of JS, but I think it has become a very acceptable language over the years.
nsonha 5y ago
this is my opinion but you pick a library that clings onto an outdated programming model (markup-centric, or string-based programming as I'd like to call it), to judge modern javascript.

hajile 5y ago

ES5 syntax itself has nothing particularly strange. It’s bog standard C/Java syntax. If there’s any complaints to be had, they would be the semantics of using the syntax (though maybe that’s actually what you mean). The worst feature (type coercion) was an intentional addition because many developers asked for it and Eich (to his later regret) went along. The only other truly weird features came from twisting prototypal inheritance into something vaguely Java-ish. These actually became more convoluted with a whole extra layer of weirdness while once again trying to force traditional classes on top. Unfortunately, devs from other languages think they’re the same and they mostly work as expected right up into things fall apart (usually when the hole they’ve dug is massive). In truth, the biggest mistake was not going with scheme. If they had, the rest would be easy from language extension to adding lower level abstractions to compiling various languages to it would all be easier.