4 ms·

Most countries treat organised crime episodes as severe aggravation - this is to deter participation in organized crime and avoid "you can't prove who did the a

Most countries treat organised crime episodes as severe aggravation - this is to deter participation in organized crime and avoid "you can't prove who did the actual stabbing" situations

asveikau 5y ago
But Mr. Ligon claims he was a bit of a loner and didn't know any of the people that he was with at the time very well. It sounds like "we rounded up a bunch of black people, and we're going to call it a gang". Which I bet was absurdly common. Probably a bit less so now in most places, but certainly the late 20th century had a lot of that sentiment that I can remember, and maybe there is a bit of a resurgence lately in some circles, "tough on crime" and "anti-gang" rhetoric that can be seen as veiled racism.
- secondcoming 5y ago
  what sort of person goes on a stabbing spree with total strangers?
  - asveikau 5y ago
    The article says he was a 15 year old kid (read: underdeveloped prefrontal cortex) out underage drinking, the group asked somebody for money for booze and it escalated into a fight. This is not saintly behavior but also not worthy of 68 years in prison. And yeah, it's conceivable that he was out doing this with people he didn't know very well, and that nobody expected or wanted a knife fight to break out.
    - daenz 5y ago
      >the group asked somebody for money for booze and it escalated into a fight. You are seriously downplaying what is described in the article as a "stabbing spree" with 8 different victims, 2 of them killed.
      - asveikau 5y ago
        I think you may be missing something too. You don't see how a non-stabbing fight could escalate into a stabbing fight, even a deadly one, and the participants can have (1) not set out to do it, (2) rather not have done it and (3) not be irredeemable people? And that some participants were escalating more than others, and it not to have been a "gang" conspiracy? This is I think what I am complaining about. So eager to see perpetrators as irredeemable villains, rather than possibly at a wrong place at a wrong time, with the wrong company, and/or they just messed up. There's often a racial thing at the root of that too. Don't get me wrong, the event sounds like a tragedy. But so is spending 68 years in jail for a 15 year old's tragic mistake. And make no mistake, a white person who did the exact same thing or worse would get off easier.
        secondcoming 5y ago
        The event sounds like an outrage.
        hhnntt 5y ago
        Do you have some additional facts on the case, or are you just regurgitating your preconceived notions? You seem to be so sure that Mr. Ligon was just a victim drawn into this situation but for all you know he could be a completely cold-hearted killer. As someone with a friend who was stabbed to death, I personally am glad to live in a society where stabbing people is more gravely punished than a *tragic mistake*.
        randompwd 5y ago
        > You don't see how a non-stabbing fight could escalate into a stabbing fight It wasn't a single incident/moment in time. Dig a little deeper. These articles don't like to focus on the negative which is why they haven't even named the 2 dead innocent victims(Charles Pitts and Jackson Hamm,): https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4604687/com-v-ligon-j/ https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4604687/com-v-ligon-j/ > Appellant and four others imbibed wine and, over the course of approximately two hours, proceeded to rob and stab eight people, killing Jackson Hamm and Charles Pitts. When Appellant was arrested that night, he was carrying a knife sheath on his person. A knife was recovered from the patrol car where Appellant had been sitting.
- juskrey 5y ago
  We are supposed to read the message for our own kids here: if the brawl starts, move out, not in. Not too racist, right?

Most countries treat organised crime episodes as severe aggravation - this is to deter participation in organized crime and avoid "you can't prove who did the actual stabbing" situations

asveikau 5y ago

But Mr. Ligon claims he was a bit of a loner and didn't know any of the people that he was with at the time very well. It sounds like "we rounded up a bunch of black people, and we're going to call it a gang". Which I bet was absurdly common. Probably a bit less so now in most places, but certainly the late 20th century had a lot of that sentiment that I can remember, and maybe there is a bit of a resurgence lately in some circles, "tough on crime" and "anti-gang" rhetoric that can be seen as veiled racism.

secondcoming 5y ago
what sort of person goes on a stabbing spree with total strangers?
- asveikau 5y ago
  The article says he was a 15 year old kid (read: underdeveloped prefrontal cortex) out underage drinking, the group asked somebody for money for booze and it escalated into a fight. This is not saintly behavior but also not worthy of 68 years in prison. And yeah, it's conceivable that he was out doing this with people he didn't know very well, and that nobody expected or wanted a knife fight to break out.
  - daenz 5y ago
    >the group asked somebody for money for booze and it escalated into a fight. You are seriously downplaying what is described in the article as a "stabbing spree" with 8 different victims, 2 of them killed.
    - asveikau 5y ago
      I think you may be missing something too. You don't see how a non-stabbing fight could escalate into a stabbing fight, even a deadly one, and the participants can have (1) not set out to do it, (2) rather not have done it and (3) not be irredeemable people? And that some participants were escalating more than others, and it not to have been a "gang" conspiracy? This is I think what I am complaining about. So eager to see perpetrators as irredeemable villains, rather than possibly at a wrong place at a wrong time, with the wrong company, and/or they just messed up. There's often a racial thing at the root of that too. Don't get me wrong, the event sounds like a tragedy. But so is spending 68 years in jail for a 15 year old's tragic mistake. And make no mistake, a white person who did the exact same thing or worse would get off easier.
      - secondcoming 5y ago
        The event sounds like an outrage.
      - hhnntt 5y ago
        Do you have some additional facts on the case, or are you just regurgitating your preconceived notions? You seem to be so sure that Mr. Ligon was just a victim drawn into this situation but for all you know he could be a completely cold-hearted killer. As someone with a friend who was stabbed to death, I personally am glad to live in a society where stabbing people is more gravely punished than a *tragic mistake*.
      - randompwd 5y ago
        > You don't see how a non-stabbing fight could escalate into a stabbing fight It wasn't a single incident/moment in time. Dig a little deeper. These articles don't like to focus on the negative which is why they haven't even named the 2 dead innocent victims(Charles Pitts and Jackson Hamm,): https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4604687/com-v-ligon-j/ https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4604687/com-v-ligon-j/ > Appellant and four others imbibed wine and, over the course of approximately two hours, proceeded to rob and stab eight people, killing Jackson Hamm and Charles Pitts. When Appellant was arrested that night, he was carrying a knife sheath on his person. A knife was recovered from the patrol car where Appellant had been sitting.
juskrey 5y ago
We are supposed to read the message for our own kids here: if the brawl starts, move out, not in. Not too racist, right?