4 ms·

The least affordable are the places with the most comfort, hours of good weather per year, natural beauty, amenities, and jobs. The most affordable are the pla

by zepto 5y ago

The least affordable are the places with the most comfort, hours of good weather per year, natural beauty, amenities, and jobs. The most affordable are the places with the worst weather, pollution, etc. Doesn’t this just translate into ‘valuable things are more expensive’?

awb 5y ago
Yeah it would be interesting to see a price to desirability ratio. Although everyone’s desirability equation would be different.
- joshgel 5y ago
  Isn’t the price just the desirability factor (on average)? Would be interesting to select areas of desirability and find the cheapest areas that match those criteria.
  - dccoolgai 5y ago
    I think the thing that's maybe novel, though, is that "access to high-paying jobs" has previously been a huge "chunk" of the desirability metric. Now take that away: Is it still worth paying 20x as much on a quotidian basis when two places have the same access to those jobs? Having spent time in both CA and Northeast Ohio: is California nicer? Would I pay maybe 20-30pct more to live there? You bet I would. 2000pct? Keep your needle-littered streets, I'll see you in Cleveland.
  - awb 5y ago
    In a perfectly efficient market, yes. But many people will remain in one place to be by their family even if the price to desirability ratio is out of whack.
bsagdiyev 5y ago
What is comfortable about traffic, smog and high taxes? I love California, lived there my whole life up until this past January but let’s not forget to take off our rose colored glasses. Edit: drought, wildfires, income inequality on a huge level, horrible public transport, but there’s beaches, mountains and desert all within a days drive I guess?
- bosie 5y ago
  Where did you move to if you don’t mind me asking?
  - bsagdiyev 5y ago
    Raleigh, NC area. My girlfriend has family out here and we decided to give it a try since we’ve started a family and couldn’t afford the space we needed for our son and extra for our second child when they come along. Ended up buying a house for less than half what it would have cost in San Diego with a nice amount of land and about 20 minutes from downtown Raleigh on an average day. We lost the beaches and desert but still have mountains and lots of green areas nearby. My only complaint is I need to make California burritos at home as that’s not really a thing here (go figure) but we love it so far otherwise.
    - vidanay 5y ago
      We are coming to Chapel Hill soon. Love the Triangle.
- zepto 5y ago
  Smog hasn’t been a thing in california doe a while. Traffic certainly is. High taxes are a tautology and can’t be factored in here because they are just part of the cost side of the equation. If you are arguing that California is objectively undesirable compared to other places on the list, then how do you account for the demand?
  - bsagdiyev 5y ago
    Where do you live? Ever driven the 210, 91, 215 or 15 around the Riverside/San Bernardino area? Smog is absolutely still a thing. Bakersfield has the worst air in the US. California is absolutely desirable and I never said it wasn’t. But your reasons for it being the top spots don’t jive with what people actually feel or think. A lot of houses are being sold sight unseen for cash, sometimes up to 25+% over offer, just to be rented out for a profit by someone from out of state the demand is propped up by this as well as normal migration in.
bluedino 5y ago
Don’t forget about crime levels in the least desirable areas.
joshgel 5y ago
Also, lots of other quality of life and expense factors to consider: schools, dinning/produce, jobs in your field. Ultimately though, doesn’t the market just work this out? The areas where the most people want to live are the most expensive and visa versa. The trick is figuring out what matters to you and what doesn’t and then finding the cheapest place that offers what you want. With the obvious caveat that for many many people, being close to friends and family is a major factor in what they want.
na85 5y ago
Yeah I don't need priceonomics to tell me demand for housing (and thus home prices relative to income) is going to be much higher in coastal California than in small town Ohio.
dccoolgai 5y ago
Youngstown, the "most affordable place" quoted has decent weather (not California, but not a frigid tundra by any means), is close to major transportation hubs (40ish minute drive to 2 international airports), one of the most beautiful metro park systems in the country (google Lantermans Mill), pretty decent schools in the suburbs, and a burgeoning "hipster-crafts" scene. It's exactly the kind of place I'd expect to start capturing some attention: in some ways the pandemic may be the best thing that ever happened to that region, because it forces a kind of reckoning around "what things are really _valuable_ in a remote- first world?". CA/SF are great.. but for a lot of people having a great quality of life _and_ having the financial security to pass more on to others or pay for things other than a house that costs 15x as much is a more fulfilling choice.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tacitusarc 5y ago
  The Youngstown from 15 years ago that I remember was terrible. Maybe it's improved but it definitely was one of the places I'd never want to live.
  - dccoolgai 5y ago
    The Youngstown of 20 years ago: Struggling to deal with a newly disaffected working class, the new realities of a rising crime rate and the glimmer of its former "center of industry for the nation" self. Guess what? That's everywhere else now, too. Those problems didn't go away in Youngstown, but that region has had 40 years to deal with it and adjust and become resilient. Youngstown was a "preview" of what the rest of the US would become: Even down to its own version of Jim Traficant as president. Is it better than it was? Comparably, it certainly is. Objectively? I think it's gotten better, too. It's not SF and it never will be, but you get a lot of time and space for your money there, comparitively. I'm keeping my eye on the housing market around the area a little further out into the country.

by zepto 5y ago

awb 5y ago

Yeah it would be interesting to see a price to desirability ratio. Although everyone’s desirability equation would be different.

joshgel 5y ago
Isn’t the price just the desirability factor (on average)? Would be interesting to select areas of desirability and find the cheapest areas that match those criteria.
- dccoolgai 5y ago
  I think the thing that's maybe novel, though, is that "access to high-paying jobs" has previously been a huge "chunk" of the desirability metric. Now take that away: Is it still worth paying 20x as much on a quotidian basis when two places have the same access to those jobs? Having spent time in both CA and Northeast Ohio: is California nicer? Would I pay maybe 20-30pct more to live there? You bet I would. 2000pct? Keep your needle-littered streets, I'll see you in Cleveland.
- awb 5y ago
  In a perfectly efficient market, yes. But many people will remain in one place to be by their family even if the price to desirability ratio is out of whack.

bsagdiyev 5y ago

What is comfortable about traffic, smog and high taxes? I love California, lived there my whole life up until this past January but let’s not forget to take off our rose colored glasses. Edit: drought, wildfires, income inequality on a huge level, horrible public transport, but there’s beaches, mountains and desert all within a days drive I guess?

bosie 5y ago
Where did you move to if you don’t mind me asking?
- bsagdiyev 5y ago
  Raleigh, NC area. My girlfriend has family out here and we decided to give it a try since we’ve started a family and couldn’t afford the space we needed for our son and extra for our second child when they come along. Ended up buying a house for less than half what it would have cost in San Diego with a nice amount of land and about 20 minutes from downtown Raleigh on an average day. We lost the beaches and desert but still have mountains and lots of green areas nearby. My only complaint is I need to make California burritos at home as that’s not really a thing here (go figure) but we love it so far otherwise.
  - vidanay 5y ago
    We are coming to Chapel Hill soon. Love the Triangle.
zepto 5y ago
Smog hasn’t been a thing in california doe a while. Traffic certainly is. High taxes are a tautology and can’t be factored in here because they are just part of the cost side of the equation. If you are arguing that California is objectively undesirable compared to other places on the list, then how do you account for the demand?
- bsagdiyev 5y ago
  Where do you live? Ever driven the 210, 91, 215 or 15 around the Riverside/San Bernardino area? Smog is absolutely still a thing. Bakersfield has the worst air in the US. California is absolutely desirable and I never said it wasn’t. But your reasons for it being the top spots don’t jive with what people actually feel or think. A lot of houses are being sold sight unseen for cash, sometimes up to 25+% over offer, just to be rented out for a profit by someone from out of state the demand is propped up by this as well as normal migration in.

bluedino 5y ago

Don’t forget about crime levels in the least desirable areas.

joshgel 5y ago

Also, lots of other quality of life and expense factors to consider: schools, dinning/produce, jobs in your field. Ultimately though, doesn’t the market just work this out? The areas where the most people want to live are the most expensive and visa versa. The trick is figuring out what matters to you and what doesn’t and then finding the cheapest place that offers what you want. With the obvious caveat that for many many people, being close to friends and family is a major factor in what they want.

na85 5y ago

Yeah I don't need priceonomics to tell me demand for housing (and thus home prices relative to income) is going to be much higher in coastal California than in small town Ohio.

dccoolgai 5y ago

Youngstown, the "most affordable place" quoted has decent weather (not California, but not a frigid tundra by any means), is close to major transportation hubs (40ish minute drive to 2 international airports), one of the most beautiful metro park systems in the country (google Lantermans Mill), pretty decent schools in the suburbs, and a burgeoning "hipster-crafts" scene. It's exactly the kind of place I'd expect to start capturing some attention: in some ways the pandemic may be the best thing that ever happened to that region, because it forces a kind of reckoning around "what things are really _valuable_ in a remote- first world?". CA/SF are great.. but for a lot of people having a great quality of life _and_ having the financial security to pass more on to others or pay for things other than a house that costs 15x as much is a more fulfilling choice.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tacitusarc 5y ago
The Youngstown from 15 years ago that I remember was terrible. Maybe it's improved but it definitely was one of the places I'd never want to live.
- dccoolgai 5y ago
  The Youngstown of 20 years ago: Struggling to deal with a newly disaffected working class, the new realities of a rising crime rate and the glimmer of its former "center of industry for the nation" self. Guess what? That's everywhere else now, too. Those problems didn't go away in Youngstown, but that region has had 40 years to deal with it and adjust and become resilient. Youngstown was a "preview" of what the rest of the US would become: Even down to its own version of Jim Traficant as president. Is it better than it was? Comparably, it certainly is. Objectively? I think it's gotten better, too. It's not SF and it never will be, but you get a lot of time and space for your money there, comparitively. I'm keeping my eye on the housing market around the area a little further out into the country.