5 ms·

I'm curious, can we determine from small scale tests like this whether the data we get from them is scale independent?

by s3tz 5y ago

jpxw 5y ago
You can’t. But UBI-supporters don’t let that get in the way.
- s3tz 5y ago
  I think these experiments should use a better name if that's the case, ie limited basic income.
  - bserge 5y ago
    Universal Credit heh
- Mordisquitos 5y ago
  That's a good point. We've already carried out enough small-scale tests of UBI to know that it has no obvious drawbacks, and carrying out even more small-scale tests will not provide us with much new information. What we need now are state-wide implementations of UBI, as they are the only way that UBI-sceptics may be forced to accept it if the results are positive.
  - cbmuser 5y ago
    A small scale test doesn’t have any impact on market prices and thus does not reflect reality.
- Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
  You speak as if UBI opponents had any evidence whatsoever that it wouldn't work.
neilwilson 5y ago
You can't. If you implement income guarantees in one part of a fixed exchange rate area, then the unemployment simply moves to the part that doesn't have the income guarantee. The USA may get away with it because of the number of countries that peg to the US dollar. That is where the unemployment will get exported to. That doesn't apply in the UK. An income guarantee in UK terms is one of two things. It is either equivalent to allowing an individual to obtain their retirement pension at age 18 rather than 68. This is despite the age of that pension increasing from 60/65 to 68 over the last few years because of an unsustainable 'dependency ratio'. Or it is equivalent to removing the age cap on Child Benefit so that it is paid to supposed Adults. Child Benefit is the original 'basic income' and the value of it has been run down over the decades as usual with income guarantees of all types. It has also been curtailed for 'high rate taxpayers'. UBI doesn't work because it doesn't add to the sum total of production. It is a way of transferring real output from workers to those that don't want to work, while trying to hide such people in a crowd of worthy causes. Ordinary people tend to see straight through it.
dragonwriter 5y ago
Since the tests are at different indivividual scales, possibly. We might even get some idea of how scale affects the results, which could make the conclusions applicable across scales even though the results vary, but extrapolation is always more dangerous than interpolation.

I'm curious, can we determine from small scale tests like this whether the data we get from them is scale independent?

by s3tz 5y ago

I'm curious, can we determine from small scale tests like this whether the data we get from them is scale independent?

jpxw 5y ago

You can’t. But UBI-supporters don’t let that get in the way.

s3tz 5y ago
I think these experiments should use a better name if that's the case, ie limited basic income.
- bserge 5y ago
  Universal Credit heh
Mordisquitos 5y ago
That's a good point. We've already carried out enough small-scale tests of UBI to know that it has no obvious drawbacks, and carrying out even more small-scale tests will not provide us with much new information. What we need now are state-wide implementations of UBI, as they are the only way that UBI-sceptics may be forced to accept it if the results are positive.
- cbmuser 5y ago
  A small scale test doesn’t have any impact on market prices and thus does not reflect reality.
Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
You speak as if UBI opponents had any evidence whatsoever that it wouldn't work.

neilwilson 5y ago

You can't. If you implement income guarantees in one part of a fixed exchange rate area, then the unemployment simply moves to the part that doesn't have the income guarantee. The USA may get away with it because of the number of countries that peg to the US dollar. That is where the unemployment will get exported to. That doesn't apply in the UK. An income guarantee in UK terms is one of two things. It is either equivalent to allowing an individual to obtain their retirement pension at age 18 rather than 68. This is despite the age of that pension increasing from 60/65 to 68 over the last few years because of an unsustainable 'dependency ratio'. Or it is equivalent to removing the age cap on Child Benefit so that it is paid to supposed Adults. Child Benefit is the original 'basic income' and the value of it has been run down over the decades as usual with income guarantees of all types. It has also been curtailed for 'high rate taxpayers'. UBI doesn't work because it doesn't add to the sum total of production. It is a way of transferring real output from workers to those that don't want to work, while trying to hide such people in a crowd of worthy causes. Ordinary people tend to see straight through it.

dragonwriter 5y ago

Since the tests are at different indivividual scales, possibly. We might even get some idea of how scale affects the results, which could make the conclusions applicable across scales even though the results vary, but extrapolation is always more dangerous than interpolation.