7 ms·

If your average person became fanatic about nutrition, sleep, exercise, sun exposure, and toxin avoidance - how many extra years do you think they would add to

by gpm 6y ago

If your average person became fanatic about nutrition, sleep, exercise, sun exposure, and toxin avoidance - how many extra years do you think they would add to their life? 5? 10? What percentage of their free time do you think they would need to dedicate to those things? --- Meanwhile, an average 20 year old who is unconcerned about optimizing those things, is healthier than the average 40 year old who is. A "miracle cure" that fixed the effects of aging would be worth orders of magnitude more than being fanatic about your health today, and would (note the miracle part) consume orders of magnitude less time. Of course that miracle cure is expected to be metaphorical gold.

rantwasp 6y ago
i believe you can add 10-15 years easily if you: eat right, exercise and avoid nasty chemicals. Easily. It does not take that much more time, but it can be more expensive when it comes to food and products you use. If you go into the experimental / really expensive territory I think you can add another 5, maybe 10 years. So I firmly believe, that today, you can expand your lifespan by 25 years if you do all the right things, you can afford it and of course you don't have very poor genetics.
- kiba 6y ago
  That's good, but ultimately, it's still only 25 years. Pursuing long shot life extension tech is complementary to your effort to keep yourselves healthy.
  - rantwasp 6y ago
    well. it depends. most people i’ve talked to are not afraid of being old, they’re afraid of all the health issues and poor quality of life that comes with being old. so, my question is: if you could have the life quality of a 40yo at 80, and live to 105 instead of 80, would you only consider the improvement to be only 25 years?
- ekianjo 6y ago
  > you can add 10-15 years easily if you: eat right, exercise and avoid nasty chemicals. Where is this estimation coming from ? Out of thin air ?
  - Google234 6y ago
    There are many studies that show that healthy people live longer on average, I’m not sure it’s 10-15 years though.
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      > Healthy people live longer on average It's like saying the sky is blue. Obviously extraordinary claims of +10/15 years lifespan require extraordinary evidence.
      - Google234 5y ago
        It’s probably closer to 1 or 2 years, on average.
        rantwasp 5y ago
        here is a starting point for you: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091743516300160 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00917... if you workout (strength + cardio), you eat properly, you minimize stress level and you sleep well 10 years is not only achievable but expected. your life quality will also be day an night in your 70s and beyond (have you ever met someone that is 80 and moves like they’re 50? i have)
scott_w 6y ago
> What percentage of their free time do you think they would need to dedicate to those things? You can become reasonably competitive in triathlon on just 6-8 hours a week. A “healthy” level of exercise is likely lower than that. Add in the feel-good factor of exercise and the fact you can do it as part of a hobby or lifestyle (cycle to work, ride with friends, play football, etc.) that in itself is enjoyable. If you have children, incorporate them into it. If you’re separating “exercise” from “living” then you’re missing out on so much of life.
conistonwater 6y ago
There was a very good book, Being Mortal, where one of the points is that from the point of view of a doctor working with old people our bodies slowly but surely degrade until we are no longer to get on with our lives. So one aspect of life expectancy that gets missed very often is that my life expectancy is not the only thing that's important. During those extra years of life I also want to not be stuck in my bed, I would like to be able to go do stuff that I consider to make up my life. Exercise especially, among the other good things, doesn't just raise the life expectancy, it also makes sure you can do things yourself independently during those extra years. You don't even need to be forty for being sedentary to affect your life, it just comes to the fore as you age. It was a very motivating, slightly scary, interesting book, by Atul Gawande. The total amount of time recommended as the minimum is something like 90min cardio + 90min strength training per week, that's like 30min/day. I spend more time watching Youtube than that.
- generalizations 6y ago
  There is an old Greek myth that made the same observation about age and mobility. It's not exactly a new idea. :) A nymph asked for immortality for her lover, but forgot to also ask that he remain young. So he just got older and older, until he shrank so far that he transformed into a cricket.
- anyfoo 6y ago
  My problem with exercise is just that I hate it. In my youth I went to the gym to build muscle and was fairly successful, but I hated it. Now I am older, married, and don't see much point in wasting time building muscle anymore. So I bought a treadmill for my own home. I use it ever 2-3 days for only 20-30 minute and I hate it. It's painful, it's unbelievably boring, after using it I'm exhausted and have to take a shower. I cannot listen to podcasts or watch TV shows to fight the boredom because the experience is too intense to fully focus on something else. I cannot even really think about things. When I got the usual vaccine side effects the other day, I thought "at least I have an excuse not to exercise". I know exercise is important, but I wish it wouldn't be so terrible.
  - 6y ago
boomlinde 6y ago
> Meanwhile, an average 20 year old who is unconcerned about optimizing those things, is healthier than the average 40 year old who is. The average person that just ate a batch of bad oysters feels better than the average person than ate a batch of bad oysters an hour ago.
- xiphias2 6y ago
  I'm not sure about it. I tried the oyster my girlfriend ordered and realized that I never want to eat it raw again, while she loved it.
gelert 6y ago
Basic nutrition, sleep and exercise aren't being fanatical about one's health. These are quite simple things which are nonetheless extremely difficult to learn if your childhood didn't set you up for those things (speaking from experience here). Meanwhile a "miracle cure" would be orders of magnitude more impactful I agree however it is many orders of magnitude less likely to occur. Therefore, I think you're wrong. In addition, I disagree with how you're framing these things as chores and purely in relation to life extension, these things improve quality of life and are good things to spend part of your life doing.
- gpm 6y ago
  > I agree however it is many orders of magnitude less likely to occur. Therefore, I think you're wrong. I don't think that makes me wrong? I'm also not arguing against living a healthy life now (indeed, I take some steps in that direction in my personal life), I'm saying no matter how healthy a life you live now (hence the fanatic part) it doesn't really help that much, and the cost is high. I.e. it is not a real competitor to the miracle cure, and lack of interest in the inferior product is not evidence that the miracle cure would not succeed as a product.
qrian 6y ago
Perhaps "Listening to music before you sleep" might pique your interest, because it requires very little investment with proven increase in sleep quality. We spend 1/3 of our lifetime sleeping so even a few percent increase in sleep quality is significant.

by gpm 6y ago

rantwasp 6y ago

i believe you can add 10-15 years easily if you: eat right, exercise and avoid nasty chemicals. Easily. It does not take that much more time, but it can be more expensive when it comes to food and products you use. If you go into the experimental / really expensive territory I think you can add another 5, maybe 10 years. So I firmly believe, that today, you can expand your lifespan by 25 years if you do all the right things, you can afford it and of course you don't have very poor genetics.

kiba 6y ago
That's good, but ultimately, it's still only 25 years. Pursuing long shot life extension tech is complementary to your effort to keep yourselves healthy.
- rantwasp 6y ago
  well. it depends. most people i’ve talked to are not afraid of being old, they’re afraid of all the health issues and poor quality of life that comes with being old. so, my question is: if you could have the life quality of a 40yo at 80, and live to 105 instead of 80, would you only consider the improvement to be only 25 years?
ekianjo 6y ago
> you can add 10-15 years easily if you: eat right, exercise and avoid nasty chemicals. Where is this estimation coming from ? Out of thin air ?
- Google234 6y ago
  There are many studies that show that healthy people live longer on average, I’m not sure it’s 10-15 years though.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    > Healthy people live longer on average It's like saying the sky is blue. Obviously extraordinary claims of +10/15 years lifespan require extraordinary evidence.
    - Google234 5y ago
      It’s probably closer to 1 or 2 years, on average.
      - rantwasp 5y ago
        here is a starting point for you: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091743516300160 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00917... if you workout (strength + cardio), you eat properly, you minimize stress level and you sleep well 10 years is not only achievable but expected. your life quality will also be day an night in your 70s and beyond (have you ever met someone that is 80 and moves like they’re 50? i have)

scott_w 6y ago

> What percentage of their free time do you think they would need to dedicate to those things? You can become reasonably competitive in triathlon on just 6-8 hours a week. A “healthy” level of exercise is likely lower than that. Add in the feel-good factor of exercise and the fact you can do it as part of a hobby or lifestyle (cycle to work, ride with friends, play football, etc.) that in itself is enjoyable. If you have children, incorporate them into it. If you’re separating “exercise” from “living” then you’re missing out on so much of life.

conistonwater 6y ago

There was a very good book, Being Mortal, where one of the points is that from the point of view of a doctor working with old people our bodies slowly but surely degrade until we are no longer to get on with our lives. So one aspect of life expectancy that gets missed very often is that my life expectancy is not the only thing that's important. During those extra years of life I also want to not be stuck in my bed, I would like to be able to go do stuff that I consider to make up my life. Exercise especially, among the other good things, doesn't just raise the life expectancy, it also makes sure you can do things yourself independently during those extra years. You don't even need to be forty for being sedentary to affect your life, it just comes to the fore as you age. It was a very motivating, slightly scary, interesting book, by Atul Gawande. The total amount of time recommended as the minimum is something like 90min cardio + 90min strength training per week, that's like 30min/day. I spend more time watching Youtube than that.

generalizations 6y ago
There is an old Greek myth that made the same observation about age and mobility. It's not exactly a new idea. :) A nymph asked for immortality for her lover, but forgot to also ask that he remain young. So he just got older and older, until he shrank so far that he transformed into a cricket.
anyfoo 6y ago
My problem with exercise is just that I hate it. In my youth I went to the gym to build muscle and was fairly successful, but I hated it. Now I am older, married, and don't see much point in wasting time building muscle anymore. So I bought a treadmill for my own home. I use it ever 2-3 days for only 20-30 minute and I hate it. It's painful, it's unbelievably boring, after using it I'm exhausted and have to take a shower. I cannot listen to podcasts or watch TV shows to fight the boredom because the experience is too intense to fully focus on something else. I cannot even really think about things. When I got the usual vaccine side effects the other day, I thought "at least I have an excuse not to exercise". I know exercise is important, but I wish it wouldn't be so terrible.
- 6y ago

boomlinde 6y ago

> Meanwhile, an average 20 year old who is unconcerned about optimizing those things, is healthier than the average 40 year old who is. The average person that just ate a batch of bad oysters feels better than the average person than ate a batch of bad oysters an hour ago.

xiphias2 6y ago
I'm not sure about it. I tried the oyster my girlfriend ordered and realized that I never want to eat it raw again, while she loved it.

gelert 6y ago

Basic nutrition, sleep and exercise aren't being fanatical about one's health. These are quite simple things which are nonetheless extremely difficult to learn if your childhood didn't set you up for those things (speaking from experience here). Meanwhile a "miracle cure" would be orders of magnitude more impactful I agree however it is many orders of magnitude less likely to occur. Therefore, I think you're wrong. In addition, I disagree with how you're framing these things as chores and purely in relation to life extension, these things improve quality of life and are good things to spend part of your life doing.

gpm 6y ago
> I agree however it is many orders of magnitude less likely to occur. Therefore, I think you're wrong. I don't think that makes me wrong? I'm also not arguing against living a healthy life now (indeed, I take some steps in that direction in my personal life), I'm saying no matter how healthy a life you live now (hence the fanatic part) it doesn't really help that much, and the cost is high. I.e. it is not a real competitor to the miracle cure, and lack of interest in the inferior product is not evidence that the miracle cure would not succeed as a product.

qrian 6y ago

Perhaps "Listening to music before you sleep" might pique your interest, because it requires very little investment with proven increase in sleep quality. We spend 1/3 of our lifetime sleeping so even a few percent increase in sleep quality is significant.