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It's impressive how far China has come in just 2 decades. How significant is this achievement space technology wise? I still remember the first rover on Mars an
by pingec 5y ago
It's impressive how far China has come in just 2 decades. How significant is this achievement space technology wise? I still remember the first rover on Mars and it was a really big deal in my eyes back then.
- FooBarWidget 5y agoConsider that China is banned from the ISS and other kinds of space technology collaboration programs. China had to develop all space technology on their own. Some perspective on how significant.
- economusty 5y agoThey also steal research, but, I understand the point you are trying to make.
- spicyramen 5y agoWhen you look at the history of space travel. One of the first space programs (NASA) originated from Germany developments. North Korea nuclear weapons from Soviet undercover collaboration. Not familiar with specifics for your claim above, but just stealing is a miniscule part of what is really required for this type of effort
- coliveira 5y agoSpace research in the US started before the Germans joined, but it never worked... The US had to bring Germans to make the whole thing successful.
- siculars 5y agoI think you mean, German Jews brought their innovations to the US because Germany tried to kill them.
- vijayr02 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun but also, for balance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_H._Goddard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_H._Goddard
- La1n 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
- cdmckay 5y agoWernher von Braun, probably the most prominent German rocket scientist who was a pioneer of the US space program, was a Nazi.
- 627467 5y agoYou mean the point that history[1] tends to repeat itself[2]? [1] https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-spies-europe https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-spies-eur... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
- geofft 5y agoIn the context of for-profit business I wholeheartedly agree with you, but in the context of space exploration, if there is research about how to go to the moon and Mars that can be "stolen," isn't the moral culpability on whatever entity is hoarding that knowledge? Or is going to the moon and Mars the achievement of certain parts of humanity, to be kept secret from other unwanted parts of humanity?
- karmasimida 5y agoIt is not like even you are open all US research to one country in an instant, they would be able to build their own next decade. China did a really good job figuring out the know-hows and had their domestic team geared up for the job. That is nothing to be dismissed, like tired 'China can't do shit without stealing our technology' circlejerks would like to indicate.
- FooBarWidget 5y agoI think some evidence is needed for the accusation that they stole significant space technology research.
- techdragon 5y agoNot downplaying the achievements as they just achieved something the Soviet and Russian programs could not even at the height of their powers during the space race. But there are plenty of countries most notably Russia that have allowed China to purchase military/dual use technologies. Hardware such as advanced fighter jets, missile and rocket technology, and there’s also the huge numbers of tertiary education students who leave China for education in advanced fields before returning home for their careers. All of this will have contributed in some way to advancing China’s space flight program. They didn’t achieve this in a vacuum, let’s not perpetuate the notion that China is isolated from the rest of the world.
- coliveira 5y agoAnd the US had to bring German scientists to have a space program.
- jbay808 5y agoDid the Soviets make any major attempt for Mars? I thought that after the moon, they were mostly focused on Venus during the space race. Their ~28 Venus missions were no joke, with up to 5300 kg payloads for lander + orbiter, comparable to the Zhurong lander + orbiter payload of 5000 kg. Perhaps someone more skilled at rocket science than me can comment on the relative difficulty of moving mass to Mars vs Venus. From the table in Wikipedia's delta-v article they look about the same. That said, congratulations to China for this achievement, and the more rovers we have on mars, the more science we learn. I hope China also has a new space telescope on their to-do list.
- yurish 5y agoSoviet Union sent probs on Mars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_3
- bhy 5y agoAssuming the Zhurong Mars rover can be successfully released in the next few days, China will become the second country in the world with a working rover on Mars.
- sudosysgen 5y agoThird : The Soviet Mars 3 rover was on Mars in the early 70s. Still a great achievement!
- hellbannedguy 5y agoWith the stolen research from many countries. At this point, I don't care what they steal, with the exception of military related research. (And no--I have no citation. I have just read about to many Chinese citizens being arrested on American soil for espionage, and theft of trade secrets. Remember the guy collecting genetically modified seeds in the midwest? I could care less about Monsanto though. I do care about NASA secrets.)
- FooBarWidget 5y agoThey steal research from "the many countries" that haven't been to Mars? That seems quite an odd accusation. You just handwave the need for evidence away as if such an accusation can be assumed to be true. Arresting people on charge of espionage doesn't mean that those people actually engaged in espionage: proper due process must be finished first before that conclusion can be drawn. Also, stealing trade secrets in certain areas has got nothing to do with stealing secrets in space technology, so it's whataboutism at best. How exactly are they supposed to steal research when they've been banned from space collaboration programs? Assuming that even if they did manage to steal some research, how can that strategy possibly be more successful than countries that haven't been banned from collaboration? That makes absolutely no sense. No, China developed their space technology on their own, with their own research, by their own hard work. This is the result of accusing them of stealing and banning them: they go their own way, successfully.
- hellbannedguy 5y agoI'm to tired for a debate, but this is a start: https://defense.info/re-thinking-strategy/2020/10/the-fight-against-chinas-theft-of-space-technology/ https://defense.info/re-thinking-strategy/2020/10/the-fight-...
- simion314 5y agoFYI , you know that US was caught spying on other countries, including economical espionage(on Airbus) and I remember I seen recently some video about US getting access to some Russian equipment and the hyper patriotic narrator ... now imagine I would invent some stupid accusation that SpaceX is built on tech stolent from Russia and airbus without any proof just some unrelated links about that a guy maybe stole some seeds or some documents that you can't trust because of the political and racist environment in US. If the tech is stolen I suggest you either do some better work on presenting this or better wait for someone less lazy, more competent and with more knowledge in this domain to do it. Some US gov employee could either show or fabricate better evidence then you.
- jillesvangurp 5y agoThe significance is that that space travel is becoming a commodity. In the recent past we had several countries attempting moon landings. The Chinese landed successfully. The Israelis had a failed mission recently. The Indians crashed (on purpose) a probe on the moon. The Japanese, Iranians, and probably a few others have each launched satellites into orbit. It's getting crowded there. The other significant thing is that there is now a bit more urgency to the matter of getting humans back to the moon and eventually to Mars. The Chinese are preparing to set up their own space station and are obviously interested in going to the moon and Mars and they seem to have the technical capability to get there. It's a bit like the early days of the space age when NASA and the Russians were competing for getting there first. NASA seems busy fighting domestic battles for funding rather than getting stuff done. They got a lucky break with SpaceX having a bit more focus on that front and proposing something that might actually fly. Now they need to get serious about actually making that happen. If they don't, somebody else will.
- simonh 5y agoI think it’s very significant. Interplanetary navigation and retro propulsive soft landings are tricky to get right. Several recent lunar missions have failed and historically about half of missions to Mars crapped out. China is rapidly racking up a very solid track record with their lunar and now Mars landings. Also rovers are a significant step up in complexity and capability from static landers. The Long March 8 architecture looks like it’s suitable for adaptation for first stage recovery, and they have expressed the intention to attempt it, so China are lining up to overtake Russia as the strongest competitor to the US in space technology.
- Shadonototro 5y agothat is what happen when you don't have a corrupt government, you reach new ages every decades rather than centuries
- varispeed 5y agoWhen the entire world moved their factories there and then started to import everything, what else would you expect? It's funny how communists beat capitalists using greed to their advantage. Now it's a matter of time that communism will be seeping through every country fabric and it will be the end of the free world as we know it.