4 ms·

Wholeheartedly agreed! As a Canadian, I am upset that my current title is Software Engineer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wi

Wholeheartedly agreed! As a Canadian, I am upset that my current title is Software Engineer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring

mpalmer 5y ago
Interesting - the company I work for (based in US) was recently acquired by a Canadian business, and one of the immediate changes was the retitling of all "software engineers" to "software developers".
- bluefirebrand 5y ago
  Yeah, Engineer is a protected title in Canada.
  - dublin 5y ago
    It's also protected (though rarely enforced) in some states. Unless they've changed the law, it's illegal to call yourself and engineer in Texas unless you're a Professional Engineer licensed by the state (or another state - I think there's reciprocity there - if only we could get that for carrying firearms...) This change was made sometime in the late '90s, and I should have taken advantage of the grandfathering opportunity which would have made PE certification easier. That said, I've never needed a P.E. stamp, since on any project big enough to require that level of formality, I had access to in-house or contract engineers that could sign off.
  - gentleman11 5y ago
    By comparison, if you deal with unity customer support, a “customer service engineer” will reply and fail to help you
    - caseyohara 5y ago
      Sweetwater, the music equipment store, has "Sales Engineers" https://www.sweetwater.com/about/sales-engineers/ https://www.sweetwater.com/about/sales-engineers/
      - detaro 5y ago
        Sound Engineer, Studio Engineer, ... used a lot in music.
        caseyohara 5y ago
        Exactly. That's why I think TFA is silly for singling out software engineers.
        7thaccount 5y ago
        I think those are also not favored terms, but they're less annoying as they always use a prefix (sound, studio...etc) and don't just call themselves engineers like many in software do. Again, I think technical work like coding is a worthy profession by itself. The title of coder or programmer seem to already work and are more specific.
      - 7thaccount 5y ago
        I think sales engineer is generally fine (not sure about here though) if the title refers to an actual engineer that is knowledgeable on the product and using that knowledge to help the customer make a choice. A buddy of mine (industrial engineer) scored extremely well on the P.E. exam and is sitting on the exam board now. He is a sales engineer as he likes people and talking.
bluefirebrand 5y ago
I've never seen a job in Canada advertised for Software Engineer, unless it actually required you to have an Engineering degree. In which case you could have an Iron Ring.
benjaminjosephw 5y ago
I'm enjoying the irony in the fact that the "Iron Ring" can be made of either iron or stainless steel. The symbolism and principles represented matter more than technically correct naming conventions. In the same way, the job title shouldn't matter as much as the principles of ethical professionals. Should we really be using job titles to indicate the expectations around ethical conduct?

Wholeheartedly agreed! As a Canadian, I am upset that my current title is Software Engineer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring

mpalmer 5y ago

Interesting - the company I work for (based in US) was recently acquired by a Canadian business, and one of the immediate changes was the retitling of all "software engineers" to "software developers".

bluefirebrand 5y ago
Yeah, Engineer is a protected title in Canada.
- dublin 5y ago
  It's also protected (though rarely enforced) in some states. Unless they've changed the law, it's illegal to call yourself and engineer in Texas unless you're a Professional Engineer licensed by the state (or another state - I think there's reciprocity there - if only we could get that for carrying firearms...) This change was made sometime in the late '90s, and I should have taken advantage of the grandfathering opportunity which would have made PE certification easier. That said, I've never needed a P.E. stamp, since on any project big enough to require that level of formality, I had access to in-house or contract engineers that could sign off.
- gentleman11 5y ago
  By comparison, if you deal with unity customer support, a “customer service engineer” will reply and fail to help you
  - caseyohara 5y ago
    Sweetwater, the music equipment store, has "Sales Engineers" https://www.sweetwater.com/about/sales-engineers/ https://www.sweetwater.com/about/sales-engineers/
    - detaro 5y ago
      Sound Engineer, Studio Engineer, ... used a lot in music.
      - caseyohara 5y ago
        Exactly. That's why I think TFA is silly for singling out software engineers.
      - 7thaccount 5y ago
        I think those are also not favored terms, but they're less annoying as they always use a prefix (sound, studio...etc) and don't just call themselves engineers like many in software do. Again, I think technical work like coding is a worthy profession by itself. The title of coder or programmer seem to already work and are more specific.
    - 7thaccount 5y ago
      I think sales engineer is generally fine (not sure about here though) if the title refers to an actual engineer that is knowledgeable on the product and using that knowledge to help the customer make a choice. A buddy of mine (industrial engineer) scored extremely well on the P.E. exam and is sitting on the exam board now. He is a sales engineer as he likes people and talking.

bluefirebrand 5y ago

I've never seen a job in Canada advertised for Software Engineer, unless it actually required you to have an Engineering degree. In which case you could have an Iron Ring.

benjaminjosephw 5y ago

I'm enjoying the irony in the fact that the "Iron Ring" can be made of either iron or stainless steel. The symbolism and principles represented matter more than technically correct naming conventions. In the same way, the job title shouldn't matter as much as the principles of ethical professionals. Should we really be using job titles to indicate the expectations around ethical conduct?