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> culturally we should The problem with that is that such a "should" doesn't change the "are", and that it's unlikely to change any time soon. So we need to ac

> culturally we should The problem with that is that such a "should" doesn't change the "are", and that it's unlikely to change any time soon. So we need to acknowledge reality and try to find a fix that works within that reality.

errantspark 5y ago
Absolutely agree with this, I'm not saying we shouldn't have a right to be forgotten, it seems like an easy kludge to implement right now. I'm just musing.
dfxm12 5y ago
The reality is that one is innocent until proven guilty. I'm not interested in weakening this fundamental right to accommodate people who are uncomfortable admitting the fallibility of the police or our justice system. That people think if the cops arrest you, you're no longer innocent is the way bigger issue here.
- infogulch 5y ago
  Perhaps the problem is that most people are left unexposed to the reality of ridiculous arrest charges. A fight-fire-with-fire strategy might be that the government should aim to arrest all citizens at least once before age 25 and charge them with something ridiculous before dropping the charges. Ok after thinking about it for two seconds that may be a very stupid idea, but still...
  - akomtu 5y ago
    I'm sure most males at the age of 20 can be sent to prison for dating underage girls (17.5 years old is underage). All you need is to pull them over for speeding, start an argument about something, arrest them for arguing with police, get their phone searched and find evidence in their whatsapp. Bro, in just one year we'll have 25 millions in prisons making big money for the private prison industry.
- powersnail 5y ago
  > The reality is that one is innocent until proven guilty. The *principle* is that one is innocent until proven guilty. The reality is that not every person adheres to that principle in every situation when it comes their own internal judgement of people. > I'm not interested in weakening this fundamental right to accommodate people who are uncomfortable admitting the fallibility of the police or our justice system. The problem is that they aren't asking you to accommodate them. They already are there, perfectly accommodated, in the state of prematurely judging people's innocence. The reality is that any policy has to work by improving this not ideal situation.
infogulch 5y ago
Agree that we should aim to fix problems that have possible real-world solutions today. I think we should also consider how to fix the underlying causes of those problems. These aren't really 'either/or' but 'both', though they are clearly at different stages of the solutioning process and need different kinds and quantities of resources.

errantspark 5y ago

Absolutely agree with this, I'm not saying we shouldn't have a right to be forgotten, it seems like an easy kludge to implement right now. I'm just musing.

dfxm12 5y ago

The reality is that one is innocent until proven guilty. I'm not interested in weakening this fundamental right to accommodate people who are uncomfortable admitting the fallibility of the police or our justice system. That people think if the cops arrest you, you're no longer innocent is the way bigger issue here.

infogulch 5y ago
Perhaps the problem is that most people are left unexposed to the reality of ridiculous arrest charges. A fight-fire-with-fire strategy might be that the government should aim to arrest all citizens at least once before age 25 and charge them with something ridiculous before dropping the charges. Ok after thinking about it for two seconds that may be a very stupid idea, but still...
- akomtu 5y ago
  I'm sure most males at the age of 20 can be sent to prison for dating underage girls (17.5 years old is underage). All you need is to pull them over for speeding, start an argument about something, arrest them for arguing with police, get their phone searched and find evidence in their whatsapp. Bro, in just one year we'll have 25 millions in prisons making big money for the private prison industry.
powersnail 5y ago
> The reality is that one is innocent until proven guilty. The *principle* is that one is innocent until proven guilty. The reality is that not every person adheres to that principle in every situation when it comes their own internal judgement of people. > I'm not interested in weakening this fundamental right to accommodate people who are uncomfortable admitting the fallibility of the police or our justice system. The problem is that they aren't asking you to accommodate them. They already are there, perfectly accommodated, in the state of prematurely judging people's innocence. The reality is that any policy has to work by improving this not ideal situation.

infogulch 5y ago

Agree that we should aim to fix problems that have possible real-world solutions today. I think we should also consider how to fix the underlying causes of those problems. These aren't really 'either/or' but 'both', though they are clearly at different stages of the solutioning process and need different kinds and quantities of resources.