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> How did this concept proliferate and propagate without the internet, or at least written records? I'm perplexed by the author's perplexity. Isn't it obvious

> How did this concept proliferate and propagate without the internet, or at least written records? I'm perplexed by the author's perplexity. Isn't it obvious that short sayings like this (and other similar things, e.g. children's playground rhymes) propagate orally?

moshmosh 5y ago
Can confirm that my kids often come home having learned some trick, craft, joke, or rhyme from the other kids, that I also learned from other kids in school. One supposes adults may have a role in keeping these alive, but the larger effect seems to just be older kids passing down the knowledge to younger grades (their younger siblings, maybe) who spread the memes among themselves, generation after generation.
jfengel 5y ago
I don't think it's bafflement, exactly, but an interest in knowing more. There are linguists who study that, including playground rhymes. It's certain that they propagate orally, but it's an open question of why some things propagate and others don't. Just what is it that took one phrase from that poem and turned into into an increasingly elaborate set of semi-codified structures? The oral transmission puts limits on how fast and under what circumstances it can spread: it requires direct person-to-person contact rather than broadcast. It's the tip of a ton of research that they only alluded to, and would be curious to know more.
- xtiansimon 5y ago
  I agree, "why some things propagate and others don't" is a very interesting question. I enjoy contemplating on the variety of propagating things inductively--jokes, poetic phrases, turn of phrase, but also skills, techniques, basic knowledge--just say the phrase Org Mode sets up the cult of the organized for preaching the gospel of Emacs. haha. Though, my curiosity in meme propagation is preempted by the curious rejection of memetics as explanation for social or psychological phenomena outside of its adherents.
greatgoat420 5y ago
Right like '23-skidoo' which I remember from an ancedote from some survivors of the titanic (https://www.titanicinquiry.org/BOTInq/BOTInq06Joughin03.php https://www.titanicinquiry.org/BOTInq/BOTInq06Joughin03.php) > 6344. You are quite right; it is No. 23 door? - We used to call it the skidoo door, on account of the number. That is how I remember the number. 6345. (The Commissioner.) I do not understand that? - It is an American joke. 6346. Will you explain it? - I could not explain it, my Lord.

moshmosh 5y ago

Can confirm that my kids often come home having learned some trick, craft, joke, or rhyme from the other kids, that I also learned from other kids in school. One supposes adults may have a role in keeping these alive, but the larger effect seems to just be older kids passing down the knowledge to younger grades (their younger siblings, maybe) who spread the memes among themselves, generation after generation.

jfengel 5y ago

I don't think it's bafflement, exactly, but an interest in knowing more. There are linguists who study that, including playground rhymes. It's certain that they propagate orally, but it's an open question of why some things propagate and others don't. Just what is it that took one phrase from that poem and turned into into an increasingly elaborate set of semi-codified structures? The oral transmission puts limits on how fast and under what circumstances it can spread: it requires direct person-to-person contact rather than broadcast. It's the tip of a ton of research that they only alluded to, and would be curious to know more.

xtiansimon 5y ago
I agree, "why some things propagate and others don't" is a very interesting question. I enjoy contemplating on the variety of propagating things inductively--jokes, poetic phrases, turn of phrase, but also skills, techniques, basic knowledge--just say the phrase Org Mode sets up the cult of the organized for preaching the gospel of Emacs. haha. Though, my curiosity in meme propagation is preempted by the curious rejection of memetics as explanation for social or psychological phenomena outside of its adherents.

greatgoat420 5y ago

Right like '23-skidoo' which I remember from an ancedote from some survivors of the titanic (https://www.titanicinquiry.org/BOTInq/BOTInq06Joughin03.php https://www.titanicinquiry.org/BOTInq/BOTInq06Joughin03.php) > 6344. You are quite right; it is No. 23 door? - We used to call it the skidoo door, on account of the number. That is how I remember the number. 6345. (The Commissioner.) I do not understand that? - It is an American joke. 6346. Will you explain it? - I could not explain it, my Lord.