6 ms·

Why? I honestly don't see what you're suggesting? We're already half-human half-chemical half-cyborgs. We drink coffee which includes caffeine, we use alcohol

Why? I honestly don't see what you're suggesting? We're already half-human half-chemical half-cyborgs. We drink coffee which includes caffeine, we use alcohol and THC regularly to "socialize", we take ibuprofen et al when feel pain, we eat sugar because we're fucking addicted. We use internet almost all the time except when sleeping and taking a shower. We check reddit, twitter, HN, facebook, instagram as if our lives depend on it. We're on track to build virtual reality googles that'll entertain us in an entire different simulated reality that we can only experience via our eyes. Not to mention most people look at monitors most of their lives anyway. We regularly vaccinate against tetanus, HPV, chicken pox, flu etc. Do you not get the flu shot every year? I vaccinate my cat against rabies and distemper every year. I take antidepressants (anxiety) and antihistemics (allergy) every day, because I kinda need them to live normally. My girlfriend has to take pain medicine once a month due to her basic biology. And the problem is we'll add COVID and cold to our annual flu shots, and that somehow makes our world any more dystopic. Makes absolutely no fucking sense. There are trillions of shit to be outraged about, this ain't one of those. Just chill.

Mediterraneo10 5y ago
Who knows what motivated the grandparent post to say that [EDIT: OK, now he explained and I definitely don’t endorse that, geez], but I can see some grounds for unease at aledalgrande's vision of a specifically annual vaccination mentioned above. The COVID epidemic has been accompanied by border closures, followed now by a slow and chaotic reopening of them as different countries recognize different vaccines and different certificates proving vaccination. A future where everyone must get an annual jab to prevent even the common cold, and then have to prove recent vaccination to cross borders, would only continue indefinitely what many people hoped was just a one-off thing in their lifetimes. Incidentally, only half of people or less even in affluent countries get the annual flu shot. It is frequently believed to be relevant only for the elderly and at-risk demographics.
- gnulinux 5y ago
  > many people hoped was just a one-off thing. This was never the case. If you didn't understand that COVID is here to stay indefinitely, like flu, after April 2020 I'm sorry but you aren't paying attention. Not to mention, if we follow perfect vaccination around the world, we can eradicate COVID like we eradicated smallpox etc, although this will be a lot harder. So, I still don't see your point. Yes people need to take yearly vaccines not to die of horrible diseases. That has been the case for the last few hundred years.
  - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
    As frequently reported in the last year, only a small niche of the scientific community is optimistic that COVID can be eradicated through vaccination. Smallpox had no animal reservoirs, while COVID does. > Yes people need to take yearly vaccines not to die of horrible diseases. That has been the case for the last few hundred years. No, it hasn’t. The only common annual vaccination is for influenza, it was introduced only in recent decades, and, as I mentioned, only half the population or less take it annually.
    - gnulinux 5y ago
      > No, it hasn’t. The only common annual vaccination is for influenza, it was introduced only in recent decades, and, as I mentioned, only half the population or less take it annually. You only take flu annually but there are other vaccines you need to take periodically. E.g. tetanus booster every 10 years etc. For example, I'm supposed to take my last HPV vaccine this summer and this is the 3rd shot. I'm 25 and I took approx. one vaccine every year for the last few years. I'm not saying strictly one every 12 months, it's just that it doesn't make sense to be outraged about COVID vax since regular vax is already part of our lives.
      - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
        Note that aledalgrande’s original post above was speaking specifically about annual vaccination. That is is a completely different league than the common vaccines that require a booster shot every decade or so, and are much easier for people moving around internationally to plan around.
- AshamedCaptain 5y ago
  You live already in that world. I have already lost track of the number of "jabs" I've needed to travel to several countries, and this was way before COVID.
  - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
    No, the vaccinations required for travel were virtually never expected to be taken on an annual basis but rather were good for years. For example, not only was the UN yellow-fever vaccination certificate good for 10 years, but recently the WHO announced that the yellow-fever vaccine now appears to confer life-long immunity, so border officials should accept the certificate regardless of the date on it.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - msbarnett 5y ago
      That's just the luck of the draw, though. Yellow Fever happens to be amenable to life-long immunity. COVID (may) not be. Had the situation been reversed, you'd have had to get Yellow Fever vaccinations a lot more often if you were travelling into those regions, and the COVID situation would be one-and-done. It just happens that this is the way it worked out, instead. There's nothing dystopian about this.
  - AndrewBissell 5y ago
    You've lost track? The only 100% required vaccine for international travel I'm aware of is yellow fever, which poses an infection fatality risk hundreds or thousands of times higher than Covid.
    - Marsymars 5y ago
      Checked this - the yellow fever IFR only appears to be about 10× that of covid-19 overall.
      - 5y ago
- aledalgrande 5y ago
  It might not even be a shot. Would it still be an issue if it was a nasal spray that you can buy at your pharmacy once a year?
  - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
    The issue is really availability of the vaccine at all. It would suck if a person from country A traveling in developing country B needs to get vaccinated yet again in order to move on to country C, but developing country B has a poor healthcare system that travelers would reasonably want to avoid contract with. One would then be compelled to visit a private hospital for expats at great expense, but sometimes even that option is not available. Even if nasal sprays bought from a corner pharmacy are on the horizon, they would probably only reach developing countries years from now – and merely buying a product from a pharmacy in most countries might not get you an internationally recognized certificate of vaccination.
    - aledalgrande 5y ago
      Availability and inequality is a fair concern, but why should we stop working on something that would improve everyone's lives? Nobody said it's going to be mandatory for travel.
    - Retric 5y ago
      The entire point of such vaccinations would be to prevent another major shutdown from a new coronavirus outbreak, and thus avoid a much larger issue when trying to cross borders. The expectation is nobody is going to care much if people get the next shot anymore than they do about the annual flu vaccine because significant herd immunity will be in play. The only way that changes is if some new and extremely deadly variant is out there, but again past vaccinations are likely still helpful. Thus, regular vaccination deployment would be a pure win for travelers.
- tzs 5y ago
  > Incidentally, only half of people or less even in affluent countries get the annual flu shot. It is frequently believed to be relevant only for the elderly and at-risk demographics. You are right as far as about half getting it, at least for the United States. Quite a few people who are not elderly or at risk get it. Here are the age breakdowns. About 60% of the people under 18 get it [1]. Under 18 is about 25% of the population. About 34% of 18-49 year olds get it. They make up about 42% of the population. That makes under 18s who get flu vaccine about 15% of the population, and 18-49s who get flu vaccine about 14% of the population. If only 50% of the population get the flu vaccine, that would mean that 58% of the people getting flu vaccine are under 50. [1] https://www.thenationshealth.org/content/47/9/E45 https://www.thenationshealth.org/content/47/9/E45
xwolfi 5y ago
I... I use the internet in my shower and I sleep with podcasts. Am I a full cyborg ? :D
throwawayboise 5y ago
> Do you not get the flu shot every year? I do not. I have never had a flu shot in my life.
osenthuortuh 5y ago
You do not have to be as you have described yourself. You do not have to rely on caffeine, thc, or alcohol. This is the practice of sobriety, which is followed by many. You can learn to be at peace with your own mind. You do not have to have to follow any social media. Many do not and billions could not in the past. Of what you listed, I use only HN, and that only to distract me at work. You do not have to be connected to dopamine goggles from <company>, you can be entertained by your own imagination, by the allure of the world, by the beauty of the people around you. You do not have to feel that you cannot live without pharmaceuticals. The value of a tetanus shot is obvious, but it can be something you choose, not something which you are burdened to bear as the price of birth. Depressive disorders are wholly a disease of our malignant society. I would encourage you to examine the work of Stephen Ildari, for it has helped me greatly. I encourage you to see what happens to you and your gf when you eat plants instead of processed <product>. You can be more than a tax cattle, or someone else's paycheck, or the reflection of the vision and will of powerful strangers. You are still very young. Take control of who and what you are.
- azinman2 5y ago
  None of that is an argument against getting vaccinated against viruses that easily spread amongst the population with mild to horrific effect, mutating as it goes along. We should be celebrating science, the discovery and advancement of vaccines, and their ability to give immunity or strong protection against diseases that have previously debilitated individuals or worse. The fact that I have never known anyone with Polio is because of the strong global efforts to irradiate the disease from the face of the planet. Tragically the anti-science and anti-vaccine messaging has made that not possible for covid... something that's already resulted in near equal death of WWII in just over a year and will only continue.
  - osenthuortuh 5y ago
    And, by examination of evidence, everyone who has received a vaccine for covid is protected from it. Let them be free to make that choice.
silicon2401 5y ago
> We drink coffee which includes caffeine, we use alcohol and THC regularly to "socialize", we take ibuprofen et al when feel pain, we eat sugar because we're fucking addicted. Who is we? I don't consume caffeine or THC, don't eat much sugar or drink much alcohol, and don't remember taking painkillers at all in 2020 or 2021 so far. I don't use social media like FB or IG. I don't remember getting a flu shot ever, maybe in childhood and I forgot. Despite telling the other commenter to chill, your comment is bafflingly aggressive. It's possible to live without drugs and social media and we should encourage that, not take for granted that everyone should be forced to use drugs just to socialize or eat sugar.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Mediterraneo10 5y ago

Who knows what motivated the grandparent post to say that [EDIT: OK, now he explained and I definitely don’t endorse that, geez], but I can see some grounds for unease at aledalgrande's vision of a specifically annual vaccination mentioned above. The COVID epidemic has been accompanied by border closures, followed now by a slow and chaotic reopening of them as different countries recognize different vaccines and different certificates proving vaccination. A future where everyone must get an annual jab to prevent even the common cold, and then have to prove recent vaccination to cross borders, would only continue indefinitely what many people hoped was just a one-off thing in their lifetimes. Incidentally, only half of people or less even in affluent countries get the annual flu shot. It is frequently believed to be relevant only for the elderly and at-risk demographics.

gnulinux 5y ago
> many people hoped was just a one-off thing. This was never the case. If you didn't understand that COVID is here to stay indefinitely, like flu, after April 2020 I'm sorry but you aren't paying attention. Not to mention, if we follow perfect vaccination around the world, we can eradicate COVID like we eradicated smallpox etc, although this will be a lot harder. So, I still don't see your point. Yes people need to take yearly vaccines not to die of horrible diseases. That has been the case for the last few hundred years.
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  As frequently reported in the last year, only a small niche of the scientific community is optimistic that COVID can be eradicated through vaccination. Smallpox had no animal reservoirs, while COVID does. > Yes people need to take yearly vaccines not to die of horrible diseases. That has been the case for the last few hundred years. No, it hasn’t. The only common annual vaccination is for influenza, it was introduced only in recent decades, and, as I mentioned, only half the population or less take it annually.
  - gnulinux 5y ago
    > No, it hasn’t. The only common annual vaccination is for influenza, it was introduced only in recent decades, and, as I mentioned, only half the population or less take it annually. You only take flu annually but there are other vaccines you need to take periodically. E.g. tetanus booster every 10 years etc. For example, I'm supposed to take my last HPV vaccine this summer and this is the 3rd shot. I'm 25 and I took approx. one vaccine every year for the last few years. I'm not saying strictly one every 12 months, it's just that it doesn't make sense to be outraged about COVID vax since regular vax is already part of our lives.
    - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
      Note that aledalgrande’s original post above was speaking specifically about annual vaccination. That is is a completely different league than the common vaccines that require a booster shot every decade or so, and are much easier for people moving around internationally to plan around.
AshamedCaptain 5y ago
You live already in that world. I have already lost track of the number of "jabs" I've needed to travel to several countries, and this was way before COVID.
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  No, the vaccinations required for travel were virtually never expected to be taken on an annual basis but rather were good for years. For example, not only was the UN yellow-fever vaccination certificate good for 10 years, but recently the WHO announced that the yellow-fever vaccine now appears to confer life-long immunity, so border officials should accept the certificate regardless of the date on it.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - msbarnett 5y ago
    That's just the luck of the draw, though. Yellow Fever happens to be amenable to life-long immunity. COVID (may) not be. Had the situation been reversed, you'd have had to get Yellow Fever vaccinations a lot more often if you were travelling into those regions, and the COVID situation would be one-and-done. It just happens that this is the way it worked out, instead. There's nothing dystopian about this.
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  You've lost track? The only 100% required vaccine for international travel I'm aware of is yellow fever, which poses an infection fatality risk hundreds or thousands of times higher than Covid.
  - Marsymars 5y ago
    Checked this - the yellow fever IFR only appears to be about 10× that of covid-19 overall.
    - 5y ago
aledalgrande 5y ago
It might not even be a shot. Would it still be an issue if it was a nasal spray that you can buy at your pharmacy once a year?
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  The issue is really availability of the vaccine at all. It would suck if a person from country A traveling in developing country B needs to get vaccinated yet again in order to move on to country C, but developing country B has a poor healthcare system that travelers would reasonably want to avoid contract with. One would then be compelled to visit a private hospital for expats at great expense, but sometimes even that option is not available. Even if nasal sprays bought from a corner pharmacy are on the horizon, they would probably only reach developing countries years from now – and merely buying a product from a pharmacy in most countries might not get you an internationally recognized certificate of vaccination.
  - aledalgrande 5y ago
    Availability and inequality is a fair concern, but why should we stop working on something that would improve everyone's lives? Nobody said it's going to be mandatory for travel.
  - Retric 5y ago
    The entire point of such vaccinations would be to prevent another major shutdown from a new coronavirus outbreak, and thus avoid a much larger issue when trying to cross borders. The expectation is nobody is going to care much if people get the next shot anymore than they do about the annual flu vaccine because significant herd immunity will be in play. The only way that changes is if some new and extremely deadly variant is out there, but again past vaccinations are likely still helpful. Thus, regular vaccination deployment would be a pure win for travelers.
tzs 5y ago
> Incidentally, only half of people or less even in affluent countries get the annual flu shot. It is frequently believed to be relevant only for the elderly and at-risk demographics. You are right as far as about half getting it, at least for the United States. Quite a few people who are not elderly or at risk get it. Here are the age breakdowns. About 60% of the people under 18 get it [1]. Under 18 is about 25% of the population. About 34% of 18-49 year olds get it. They make up about 42% of the population. That makes under 18s who get flu vaccine about 15% of the population, and 18-49s who get flu vaccine about 14% of the population. If only 50% of the population get the flu vaccine, that would mean that 58% of the people getting flu vaccine are under 50. [1] https://www.thenationshealth.org/content/47/9/E45 https://www.thenationshealth.org/content/47/9/E45

xwolfi 5y ago

I... I use the internet in my shower and I sleep with podcasts. Am I a full cyborg ? :D

throwawayboise 5y ago

> Do you not get the flu shot every year? I do not. I have never had a flu shot in my life.

osenthuortuh 5y ago

You do not have to be as you have described yourself. You do not have to rely on caffeine, thc, or alcohol. This is the practice of sobriety, which is followed by many. You can learn to be at peace with your own mind. You do not have to have to follow any social media. Many do not and billions could not in the past. Of what you listed, I use only HN, and that only to distract me at work. You do not have to be connected to dopamine goggles from <company>, you can be entertained by your own imagination, by the allure of the world, by the beauty of the people around you. You do not have to feel that you cannot live without pharmaceuticals. The value of a tetanus shot is obvious, but it can be something you choose, not something which you are burdened to bear as the price of birth. Depressive disorders are wholly a disease of our malignant society. I would encourage you to examine the work of Stephen Ildari, for it has helped me greatly. I encourage you to see what happens to you and your gf when you eat plants instead of processed <product>. You can be more than a tax cattle, or someone else's paycheck, or the reflection of the vision and will of powerful strangers. You are still very young. Take control of who and what you are.

azinman2 5y ago
None of that is an argument against getting vaccinated against viruses that easily spread amongst the population with mild to horrific effect, mutating as it goes along. We should be celebrating science, the discovery and advancement of vaccines, and their ability to give immunity or strong protection against diseases that have previously debilitated individuals or worse. The fact that I have never known anyone with Polio is because of the strong global efforts to irradiate the disease from the face of the planet. Tragically the anti-science and anti-vaccine messaging has made that not possible for covid... something that's already resulted in near equal death of WWII in just over a year and will only continue.
- osenthuortuh 5y ago
  And, by examination of evidence, everyone who has received a vaccine for covid is protected from it. Let them be free to make that choice.

silicon2401 5y ago

> We drink coffee which includes caffeine, we use alcohol and THC regularly to "socialize", we take ibuprofen et al when feel pain, we eat sugar because we're fucking addicted. Who is we? I don't consume caffeine or THC, don't eat much sugar or drink much alcohol, and don't remember taking painkillers at all in 2020 or 2021 so far. I don't use social media like FB or IG. I don't remember getting a flu shot ever, maybe in childhood and I forgot. Despite telling the other commenter to chill, your comment is bafflingly aggressive. It's possible to live without drugs and social media and we should encourage that, not take for granted that everyone should be forced to use drugs just to socialize or eat sugar.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]