5 ms·

That was just an example though. My point was that you're constantly fighting an operating system that's clearly not designed for you ( the developer ).

by Naac 5y ago

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Apple has always made it clear that they care about the experience of their users, not the developers. Because the customers are there, the developers follow. That's just how it works unfortunately. Also, clearly not designed for you? You can install Brew to have a package manager, Magnet to add Window snapping for a dollar, you can make it fit your use case for not that much effort or money. You don't have to use vanilla MacOS. Furthermore, consider the alternatives. You've got Windows (bleh for a thousand reasons and clearly also not designed for developers), or you've got Linux (which doesn't have many of the apps you need, worse battery life, doesn't have Handoff to your iPhone). MacOS is the best all-rounder option for many people.
- mxcrossr 5y ago
  You forgot BSD… oh wait I guess they’re also user hostile because they dare to ship without GNU grep
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  You can’t stop dozens of chatty network services, due to a read only system partition. Without defeating other security that is. That’s a poor design.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    Umm... yes, you can. You can use Little Snitch just fine.
    - mixmastamyk 5y ago
      That’s a band aid, rather than the proper solution of not having them on by default.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Poor design is leveraging a security model on an arbitrary and centralized root of trust, but maybe it's just a matter of perspective.
    - zepto 5y ago
      Yes, that is a poor design - no sarcasm - I mean it. However it’s better for most people than the alternative. Fixing this should be job #1 for the Linux community.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        For the most part, Linux has "fixed" that. Really, the hardest part of using Linux is the onboarding process, which is being addressed with companies like System76 and Lenovo offering to ship laptops with Linux preinstalled.
        zepto 5y ago
        As far as I am aware Linux hasn’t even started to work on the problem: https://m.slashdot.org/story/360034 https://m.slashdot.org/story/360034
- jakeva 5y ago
  Forget window snapping for a dollar, try window snapping for free with Rectangle! https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/ And I agree. As a user and developer, I have no idea what the OP is on about
  - OJFord 5y ago
    Yabai is (also free, beer and speech) the best I found. I mainly use Linux, but I do try to keep my dotfiles agnostic, or have ~'equivalents' like i3 & yabai. MacOS is fine if you want to run with defaults and experience everything as Apple wants you to, and change that if they announce they want you to in the grand unveiling of the next version. If you try to deviate at all, it becomes a fight. Linux is sort of the opposite extreme and some people don't like it because to some extent (although surely not really true of Ubuntu etc.?) you have to have these would-be deviating opinions on setting something up, you know, choose a shell, a window/display manager, a browser, a file manager, etc. But because of that, it doesn't care which you pick, if you change it, or how long past its sell by date you keep it running.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      > If you try to deviate at all, it becomes a fight. Exactly this. Linux scares people because many people are allergic to choice, and the concept of actually developing an opinion on something other than the sum of their total experience on MacOS. Linux is frustrating, because there are a lot of different places you can point to as underdeveloped, but only because you can see the entire thing. When something breaks on MacOS, you just have to shrug and pray you don't use it, because your only support options are to reinstall MacOS or buy a new computer.
      - leadingthenet 5y ago
        Beyond the choice vs lack of choice issue, Linux is also frustrating because it just lacks the high quality apps macOS has. Period. I use Arch btw.
        5y ago
- grawprog 5y ago
  > to add Window snapping for a dollar You have to pay extra for basic window manager features on macos? How is that even caring about the experience of users let alone devs?
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    Apple clearly has evaluated Window Snapping and decided not to add it for whatever reason. Rumor has it Microsoft patented it.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      That's untrue though, because Linux DEs have been doing 4-way snapping for decades now.
      - grawprog 5y ago
        It reminds me of how my old Nokia phone could do such basic things as use custom ringtones, whereas iPhones of the time did not have this functionality. Apple seems to have this thing where they treat basic functionality as a premium or an upgrade. Things like window snapping, or being able to compile and distribute software...
        smoldesu 5y ago
        It's especially heartbreaking when they take that same functionality and lock it behind APIs that most developers can't use.
      - zepto 5y ago
        > That's untrue though, because Linux DEs have been doing 4-way snapping for decades now. That doesn’t mean it’s not patented. It just means there’s nobody worth Microsoft suing.
  - kergonath 5y ago
    It is not built in. They won’t sell it, though. There are tools to add this sort of features, some are free software, some are gratis but proprietary, and some cost money.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  For a few years now, Linux has had KDE/GSConnect, which adds in basically all of the MacOS/iPhone handoff functionality to your Linux distro/WM of choice, with a few extra tools that go beyond even what Apple has. For starters, there's the basic stuff: desktop messaging, contact synchronization, integrated wireless filesharing, universal clipboard/notifications and battery updates for your connected device. Then it also has some features that don't exist on MacOS/iOS: you can set up macros on your computer and easily remotely execute them with the press of a button on your phone, use your phone as a wireless trackpad, synchronize media controls across all your devices, use your phone as a keyboard for your computer, use your computer as a keyboard for your phone, wirelessly mount your phone as a webcam, ring it at max volume if you lose it, and sharing links.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Visual Studio, Delphi, C++ Builder are clearly designed for developers.
spicybright 5y ago
Can you list a few more examples of fighting things? I'm using a macbook as a dev machine, and I've genuinely never been so productive in my career.
eschaton 5y ago
The people who develop macOS, iOS, et al are also users of those systems. It’s pretty awesome actually.
pjmlp 5y ago
I works perfectly fine for me as developer, because I don't use macOS to develop Linux software, for that I use a Linux laptop. While on macOS, I as developer, only care about Apple Frameworks and languages. Developer != UNIX command line.

That was just an example though. My point was that you're constantly fighting an operating system that's clearly not designed for you ( the developer ).

by Naac 5y ago

That was just an example though. My point was that you're constantly fighting an operating system that's clearly not designed for you ( the developer ).

gjsman-1000 5y ago

Apple has always made it clear that they care about the experience of their users, not the developers. Because the customers are there, the developers follow. That's just how it works unfortunately. Also, clearly not designed for you? You can install Brew to have a package manager, Magnet to add Window snapping for a dollar, you can make it fit your use case for not that much effort or money. You don't have to use vanilla MacOS. Furthermore, consider the alternatives. You've got Windows (bleh for a thousand reasons and clearly also not designed for developers), or you've got Linux (which doesn't have many of the apps you need, worse battery life, doesn't have Handoff to your iPhone). MacOS is the best all-rounder option for many people.

mxcrossr 5y ago
You forgot BSD… oh wait I guess they’re also user hostile because they dare to ship without GNU grep
mixmastamyk 5y ago
You can’t stop dozens of chatty network services, due to a read only system partition. Without defeating other security that is. That’s a poor design.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  Umm... yes, you can. You can use Little Snitch just fine.
  - mixmastamyk 5y ago
    That’s a band aid, rather than the proper solution of not having them on by default.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Poor design is leveraging a security model on an arbitrary and centralized root of trust, but maybe it's just a matter of perspective.
  - zepto 5y ago
    Yes, that is a poor design - no sarcasm - I mean it. However it’s better for most people than the alternative. Fixing this should be job #1 for the Linux community.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      For the most part, Linux has "fixed" that. Really, the hardest part of using Linux is the onboarding process, which is being addressed with companies like System76 and Lenovo offering to ship laptops with Linux preinstalled.
      - zepto 5y ago
        As far as I am aware Linux hasn’t even started to work on the problem: https://m.slashdot.org/story/360034 https://m.slashdot.org/story/360034
jakeva 5y ago
Forget window snapping for a dollar, try window snapping for free with Rectangle! https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/ And I agree. As a user and developer, I have no idea what the OP is on about
- OJFord 5y ago
  Yabai is (also free, beer and speech) the best I found. I mainly use Linux, but I do try to keep my dotfiles agnostic, or have ~'equivalents' like i3 & yabai. MacOS is fine if you want to run with defaults and experience everything as Apple wants you to, and change that if they announce they want you to in the grand unveiling of the next version. If you try to deviate at all, it becomes a fight. Linux is sort of the opposite extreme and some people don't like it because to some extent (although surely not really true of Ubuntu etc.?) you have to have these would-be deviating opinions on setting something up, you know, choose a shell, a window/display manager, a browser, a file manager, etc. But because of that, it doesn't care which you pick, if you change it, or how long past its sell by date you keep it running.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    > If you try to deviate at all, it becomes a fight. Exactly this. Linux scares people because many people are allergic to choice, and the concept of actually developing an opinion on something other than the sum of their total experience on MacOS. Linux is frustrating, because there are a lot of different places you can point to as underdeveloped, but only because you can see the entire thing. When something breaks on MacOS, you just have to shrug and pray you don't use it, because your only support options are to reinstall MacOS or buy a new computer.
    - leadingthenet 5y ago
      Beyond the choice vs lack of choice issue, Linux is also frustrating because it just lacks the high quality apps macOS has. Period. I use Arch btw.
      - 5y ago
grawprog 5y ago
> to add Window snapping for a dollar You have to pay extra for basic window manager features on macos? How is that even caring about the experience of users let alone devs?
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  Apple clearly has evaluated Window Snapping and decided not to add it for whatever reason. Rumor has it Microsoft patented it.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    That's untrue though, because Linux DEs have been doing 4-way snapping for decades now.
    - grawprog 5y ago
      It reminds me of how my old Nokia phone could do such basic things as use custom ringtones, whereas iPhones of the time did not have this functionality. Apple seems to have this thing where they treat basic functionality as a premium or an upgrade. Things like window snapping, or being able to compile and distribute software...
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        It's especially heartbreaking when they take that same functionality and lock it behind APIs that most developers can't use.
    - zepto 5y ago
      > That's untrue though, because Linux DEs have been doing 4-way snapping for decades now. That doesn’t mean it’s not patented. It just means there’s nobody worth Microsoft suing.
- kergonath 5y ago
  It is not built in. They won’t sell it, though. There are tools to add this sort of features, some are free software, some are gratis but proprietary, and some cost money.
smoldesu 5y ago
For a few years now, Linux has had KDE/GSConnect, which adds in basically all of the MacOS/iPhone handoff functionality to your Linux distro/WM of choice, with a few extra tools that go beyond even what Apple has. For starters, there's the basic stuff: desktop messaging, contact synchronization, integrated wireless filesharing, universal clipboard/notifications and battery updates for your connected device. Then it also has some features that don't exist on MacOS/iOS: you can set up macros on your computer and easily remotely execute them with the press of a button on your phone, use your phone as a wireless trackpad, synchronize media controls across all your devices, use your phone as a keyboard for your computer, use your computer as a keyboard for your phone, wirelessly mount your phone as a webcam, ring it at max volume if you lose it, and sharing links.
pjmlp 5y ago
Visual Studio, Delphi, C++ Builder are clearly designed for developers.

spicybright 5y ago

Can you list a few more examples of fighting things? I'm using a macbook as a dev machine, and I've genuinely never been so productive in my career.

eschaton 5y ago

The people who develop macOS, iOS, et al are also users of those systems. It’s pretty awesome actually.

pjmlp 5y ago

I works perfectly fine for me as developer, because I don't use macOS to develop Linux software, for that I use a Linux laptop. While on macOS, I as developer, only care about Apple Frameworks and languages. Developer != UNIX command line.