3 ms·

Unpopular opinion but I as a student wouldn’t be interested in a course like that since everything listed is easily Google-able. IMO it’s better to focus on fu

Unpopular opinion but I as a student wouldn’t be interested in a course like that since everything listed is easily Google-able. IMO it’s better to focus on fundamentals like math/algorithms that can be applied in multiple areas rather than specific tools.

sjg007 5y ago
It's worth having it in a central place especially with respect to tools needed to meet academic objectives.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  I think it's more suited for informal study groups. To learn glue scripting and debugging you need playtime. What happened to MIT, students are too overworked to play?
quesera 5y ago
> everything listed is easily Google-able Everything in a CS curriculum is easily Google-able. Being functionally illiterate at the command line is harmful for productivity, so I think it's deserving of some in-class attention.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  To become a mature mathematician you need interaction with other mathematicians. To become a passable bash programmer a book and a jar of aspirin is enough.
  - dfabulich 5y ago
    I think that's right if you already know how to use a shell, but if you don't yet know how to use any shell, or even know what a shell is, the bash book is not going to do you any favors. Imagine handing this to a person who's never heard of a shell, doesn't know how to `cd` or `ls`: https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/What-is-a-shell_003f.html https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/What-is-a... > 1.2 What is a shell? > At its base, a shell is simply a macro processor that executes commands. The term macro processor means functionality where text and symbols are expanded to create larger expressions. > A Unix shell is both a command interpreter and a programming language. As a command interpreter, the shell provides the user interface to the rich set of GNU utilities. The programming language features allow these utilities to be combined. Files containing commands can be created, and become commands themselves. These new commands have the same status as system commands in directories such as /bin, allowing users or groups to establish custom environments to automate their common tasks. "Macro processor?" "Expressions?" "Unix?" "Command interpreter?" "GNU utilities?" "Directories?" (you mean folders?) "/bin?" "Environments?"
    - HarryHirsch 5y ago
      In school we were programming in Turbo-Pascal, so I had some exposure and then took a week-long Unix evening course at my university's computer center. So that was helpful. But you are right, for someone who hasn't done much hands-on computering a semester-long introductory lab to get everyone to the same speed. My undergraduate advisor said since the second-semester lab was the basic lab, the first-semester lab had to be the basement lab.
- millimeterman 5y ago
  > Everything in a CS curriculum is easily Google-able. Not in my experience, it isn't. Maybe for the first two years of undergrad but after that I've found that Google rapidly becomes useless.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
hnxs 5y ago
Fundamentals and algorithms are just as Google-able...
dls2016 5y ago
I taught intro programming twice this year. Having never taught a CS class at all (I am a math phd)... I would just like to point out that at least at "satellite state U", most students are not like you. The class almost went off the rails the first time before I realized half the students didn't know what a text editor or shell was. I ended up writing a document at a slightly lower level than this "missing semester" course (though taking some inspiration from it). If I teach the course again, I plan to do one week shell bootcamp with "get to know your system" exercises spread throughout.
ghaff 5y ago
I wouldn't make it a degree requirement. A lot of student may already know a lot of it or may be fine with picking it up on the side. But I don't really have an issue with presenting everything you need to know about programming 101 for people entering CS who don't have a lot of experience with using computers under their belt. If someone really doesn't have experience, they also don't really know what they don't know.
Izkata 5y ago
> since everything listed is easily Google-able. There are four quadrants of knowledge: 1) What you know you know 2) What you know you don't know 3) What you don't know you know 4) What you don't know you don't know College is in large part about covering (4) and turning it into (2) or (1). You're describing turning (2) into (1) - you need to know what to Google in the first place.

sjg007 5y ago

It's worth having it in a central place especially with respect to tools needed to meet academic objectives.

HarryHirsch 5y ago
I think it's more suited for informal study groups. To learn glue scripting and debugging you need playtime. What happened to MIT, students are too overworked to play?

quesera 5y ago

> everything listed is easily Google-able Everything in a CS curriculum is easily Google-able. Being functionally illiterate at the command line is harmful for productivity, so I think it's deserving of some in-class attention.

HarryHirsch 5y ago
To become a mature mathematician you need interaction with other mathematicians. To become a passable bash programmer a book and a jar of aspirin is enough.
- dfabulich 5y ago
  I think that's right if you already know how to use a shell, but if you don't yet know how to use any shell, or even know what a shell is, the bash book is not going to do you any favors. Imagine handing this to a person who's never heard of a shell, doesn't know how to `cd` or `ls`: https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/What-is-a-shell_003f.html https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/What-is-a... > 1.2 What is a shell? > At its base, a shell is simply a macro processor that executes commands. The term macro processor means functionality where text and symbols are expanded to create larger expressions. > A Unix shell is both a command interpreter and a programming language. As a command interpreter, the shell provides the user interface to the rich set of GNU utilities. The programming language features allow these utilities to be combined. Files containing commands can be created, and become commands themselves. These new commands have the same status as system commands in directories such as /bin, allowing users or groups to establish custom environments to automate their common tasks. "Macro processor?" "Expressions?" "Unix?" "Command interpreter?" "GNU utilities?" "Directories?" (you mean folders?) "/bin?" "Environments?"
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    In school we were programming in Turbo-Pascal, so I had some exposure and then took a week-long Unix evening course at my university's computer center. So that was helpful. But you are right, for someone who hasn't done much hands-on computering a semester-long introductory lab to get everyone to the same speed. My undergraduate advisor said since the second-semester lab was the basic lab, the first-semester lab had to be the basement lab.
millimeterman 5y ago
> Everything in a CS curriculum is easily Google-able. Not in my experience, it isn't. Maybe for the first two years of undergrad but after that I've found that Google rapidly becomes useless.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

hnxs 5y ago

Fundamentals and algorithms are just as Google-able...

dls2016 5y ago

I taught intro programming twice this year. Having never taught a CS class at all (I am a math phd)... I would just like to point out that at least at "satellite state U", most students are not like you. The class almost went off the rails the first time before I realized half the students didn't know what a text editor or shell was. I ended up writing a document at a slightly lower level than this "missing semester" course (though taking some inspiration from it). If I teach the course again, I plan to do one week shell bootcamp with "get to know your system" exercises spread throughout.

ghaff 5y ago

I wouldn't make it a degree requirement. A lot of student may already know a lot of it or may be fine with picking it up on the side. But I don't really have an issue with presenting everything you need to know about programming 101 for people entering CS who don't have a lot of experience with using computers under their belt. If someone really doesn't have experience, they also don't really know what they don't know.

Izkata 5y ago

> since everything listed is easily Google-able. There are four quadrants of knowledge: 1) What you know you know 2) What you know you don't know 3) What you don't know you know 4) What you don't know you don't know College is in large part about covering (4) and turning it into (2) or (1). You're describing turning (2) into (1) - you need to know what to Google in the first place.