4 ms·

> I've talked to 100+ companies trying to convince them to offer their developer roles I wouldn't be happy if I heard that some random person is contacting my

> I've talked to 100+ companies trying to convince them to offer their developer roles I wouldn't be happy if I heard that some random person is contacting my employer to change the contract and payment structure at the company I work for. Advocating for yourself is one thing, cold calling companies and potentially affecting people that never asked for this is just wrong. Even if it's just to offer it as an option and it doesn't sound compulsory in your pitch. I hope that some unfortunate person with a couple of kids and a mortgage who is just getting by doesn't get get a 20% pay cut because of your actions. I don't get what's in it for you but you're either underestimating the potential damage that you would do if you were successful, or you simply have bad intentions with this.

philmcp 5y ago
I'm not saying "change your entire process". All I'm saying is: If you are struggling to hire (good) developers, consider offering what the majority of them want, but few companies offer. The quality of candidate will increase as you'll have a "competitive advantage" over other companies. My personal preference would be to see (all) developer roles offered as both 4 days @ 80% and 5 days @ 100% i.e. the candidate can choose. This is very common in Switzerland
- beforeolives 5y ago
  > consider offering what the majority of them want It's a big assumption that you know what the majority of developers want. And advocating for people who have never asked for your help is both arrogant and immoral in my opinion.
  - philmcp 5y ago
    I'm not advocating anything for the current employees, I'm only advocating this for new employees. I think this is where we have gotten confused so I'll update the original post. Also I'm currently running a poll and the majority of people so far (84%) would prefer to either work 3 days @ 60% or 4 days @ 80%. This has also been shown to be the case in my larger studies [1]. [1] https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/04/16/introduce-four-day-week-say-public https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/0...
    - throwaway3699 5y ago
      Most working class people I know in the UK can't get enough hours to get by, and you're suggesting we slash them by 20%?
lsy 5y ago
This is an extremely strange criticism. Unless you have some kind of strong union or co-op situation, as an employee you have almost zero control over the contract and payment structure at your company, and management’s decisions around it are influenced by factors as varied as “their spouse’s wishes” or “something they heard Elon Musk say on a podcast” or “a Tony Robbins quote on LinkedIn”. Having someone cold-call with their ideas isn’t any different from the other capricious reasons your management can change your working conditions.
- beforeolives 5y ago
  It's very straightforward. 1. I work for a company and I want to get paid more, not less. 2. OP is contacting companies and asking them to move to a model in which they pay less. (Even if the rate is the same, the absolute amount is less) 3. From the previous two points it follows that I don't agree with what OP is doing.
  - HomeDeLaPot 5y ago
    Someone who would like to take a pay cut for a 3-day weekend every week would disagree. Doesn't make OP's actions wrong—just different perspectives, I guess. (What if someone convinced your company to give you a raise and require you to work Saturdays?)
    - beforeolives 5y ago
      > What if someone convinced your company to give you a raise and require you to work Saturdays? I would personally take a raise + extra work. But I would never presume that I have things figured out to the point where I make a website and starting contacting companies so I can push my personal preferences as the clearly superior model for people I've never met in my life. Which is what OP is doing. That's what doesn't sit right with me.
      - HomeDeLaPot 5y ago
        That's fair, but also norms won't change until someone does decide that they've figured out something better. We only have the 8-hour workday that we take for granted today because people advocated for it in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day

philmcp 5y ago

I'm not saying "change your entire process". All I'm saying is: If you are struggling to hire (good) developers, consider offering what the majority of them want, but few companies offer. The quality of candidate will increase as you'll have a "competitive advantage" over other companies. My personal preference would be to see (all) developer roles offered as both 4 days @ 80% and 5 days @ 100% i.e. the candidate can choose. This is very common in Switzerland

beforeolives 5y ago
> consider offering what the majority of them want It's a big assumption that you know what the majority of developers want. And advocating for people who have never asked for your help is both arrogant and immoral in my opinion.
- philmcp 5y ago
  I'm not advocating anything for the current employees, I'm only advocating this for new employees. I think this is where we have gotten confused so I'll update the original post. Also I'm currently running a poll and the majority of people so far (84%) would prefer to either work 3 days @ 60% or 4 days @ 80%. This has also been shown to be the case in my larger studies [1]. [1] https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/04/16/introduce-four-day-week-say-public https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/0...
  - throwaway3699 5y ago
    Most working class people I know in the UK can't get enough hours to get by, and you're suggesting we slash them by 20%?

lsy 5y ago

This is an extremely strange criticism. Unless you have some kind of strong union or co-op situation, as an employee you have almost zero control over the contract and payment structure at your company, and management’s decisions around it are influenced by factors as varied as “their spouse’s wishes” or “something they heard Elon Musk say on a podcast” or “a Tony Robbins quote on LinkedIn”. Having someone cold-call with their ideas isn’t any different from the other capricious reasons your management can change your working conditions.

beforeolives 5y ago
It's very straightforward. 1. I work for a company and I want to get paid more, not less. 2. OP is contacting companies and asking them to move to a model in which they pay less. (Even if the rate is the same, the absolute amount is less) 3. From the previous two points it follows that I don't agree with what OP is doing.
- HomeDeLaPot 5y ago
  Someone who would like to take a pay cut for a 3-day weekend every week would disagree. Doesn't make OP's actions wrong—just different perspectives, I guess. (What if someone convinced your company to give you a raise and require you to work Saturdays?)
  - beforeolives 5y ago
    > What if someone convinced your company to give you a raise and require you to work Saturdays? I would personally take a raise + extra work. But I would never presume that I have things figured out to the point where I make a website and starting contacting companies so I can push my personal preferences as the clearly superior model for people I've never met in my life. Which is what OP is doing. That's what doesn't sit right with me.
    - HomeDeLaPot 5y ago
      That's fair, but also norms won't change until someone does decide that they've figured out something better. We only have the 8-hour workday that we take for granted today because people advocated for it in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day