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Starlink Review: Broadband Dreams Fall to Earth

52 points by longdefeat 5y ago

skybrian 5y ago
There is a good and useful reality check in there, but it’s also written in a style that’s looking for a fight, so I’m reluctant to recommend it.
- TerminalSystem3 5y ago
  Yeah, this reads like clickbait. The Verge has really gone down the tubes, I never go there anymore - too consumed with political causes. My guess is that some boss ordered the writer to make the review as negative as possible, probably because they have a bone to pick with Elon Musk.
  - skybrian 5y ago
    It’s a very common writing style that many people use even when their business doesn’t depend on page views. No need to look further than that, people need to make a living and are rewarded for doing what they do naturally. I mean, your guess is plausible but also kind of clickbaity speculation. We all do it. At least they actually tested the product a bit.
  - pholbrook 5y ago
    The writer, Nilay Patel, is editor-in-chief of The Verge.
scotuswroteus 5y ago
Cities see Starlink as a reason they shouldn't invest in conduit and fiber, in case wireline proves to be an obsolete technology. None of the legislation currently on offer achieves what we need as a country, which is to collectively tear up our streets and connect every home and business with gig fiber as a utility. We'll never get there. This country will always have shitty internet.
- nosmokewhereiam 5y ago
  RF.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tzs 5y ago
  Starlink will not have enough aggregate bandwidth, even when the full constellation is deployed, to be a factor when it comes to city planning for broadband.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  People keep peddling this "LTE/5G/Starlink will replace fiber" but its all shale oil salesmen and politicans unwilling to byte the bullet. RF physics prevents it
  - p_j_w 5y ago
    >RF physics prevents it This point isn't widely understood, but it's absolutely true. Anyone interested in learning more can start at Shannon-Hartley: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theore...
CommieBobDole 5y ago
So, to summarize the article: "Incomplete beta product is not that great because it's incomplete and beta" Seriously, half the article deals with connectivity issues caused by the satellite constellation being only partially complete.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  It’s The Verge, which is part of Vox Media - they aren’t exactly objective, and are one of the most left biased publications out there. In recent times there’s been an ecosystem of hate coming from the left (in news, social media) towards Elon Musk for his quirks, success, and libertarian comments. In my mind it explains these cheap articles trying to diminish efforts like Starlink.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Like calling divers that risk their lives to save children pedoes because his PR-stunt submarine didnt work?
    - throwawaysea 5y ago
      Comments like yours are exactly what I am referring to. They constitute a purity test used to attempt a character assassination of one of the most successful and impactful humans of all time. It's tired, it's unproductive, and it is entirely bereft of any sense of balance against all that he's done.
      - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        Are you trolling? Labelling someone a pedo in front of millions is the definition of character assasination.
        ecpottinger 5y ago
        Yet say NOTHING about how well Starlink runs.
mips_avatar 5y ago
I use starlink to work remotely, and it's a massive improvement from my DSL. Even with beta downtime, I am more reliably connecting to video calls, and remote desktop. I wish the verge would come and review my DSL connection for fair comparison.
- new_realist 5y ago
  Is T-Mobile's 5G Internet service available in your area?
  - mips_avatar 5y ago
    No
- olyjohn 5y ago
  Really? My DSL line is the only thing that works for Zoom meetings without dropping. Starlink still has tons of hiccups, drops and stutters. Even RDP and SSH works better over the DSL line for me. My DSL line is only 1.5Mb/768Kb. So downloads are slow. I have even done 2 simultaneous Zoom meetings on that DSL line without any problems. That said, the Starlink connection has gotten better even since I started using it. If it's still like this when it's out of Beta though, I'll be hugely disappointed.
  - mips_avatar 5y ago
    Must have a better DSL connection than mine. I have had centurylink link technicians over frequently and nothing has fixed it.
NDizzle 5y ago
I'm enjoying my experience, but I anticipated the problems and kept my other ISPs. I've seen pings around 55ms at lowest. My other LTE providers are 70 to 95ms, and there is a difference. I'm in rural NW Arkansas and I have two LTE providers plus Starlink. I'm not even using bonding - tons of things support multiple tcp streams, and those that don't it's worthwhile to have each ISP be fairly strong. Worst case my speed tests will show 150mbit / 20mbit. Best case it's 300mbit / 90mbit. I do have the Starlink connection on a 5 second watchdog, so I will see 5 seconds of nothing when things aren't ideal, before the connection is retried over one of the other ISPs.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  Huh. That’s quite high for LTE, more what you’d expect of HSDPA. Are they definitely LTE? Just did a speed test on my phone’s LTE; 15ms, which is about what I’d expect.
  - NDizzle 5y ago
    Hey, sorry, missed this. Yes, it's LTE. One is T-Mobile's home internet product. The other is in a device I assembled myself, using an EM160G modem. ATT service. My ping is high due to my location. I "hit the internet" in typically Dallas, TX, ~300 miles away. Sometimes it shows me in Colorado, Minnesota, Kansas, and Tennessee. It depends on what the LTE providers want to do with me!
- throwaway888abc 5y ago
  Check the OpenMPTCProuter - you will be positively surprised https://www.openmptcprouter.com/ https://www.openmptcprouter.com/
grecy 5y ago
Was chatting to a friend last night who lives in Canada just North of the border, about 20 minutes from a decent sized town. He's been using different sat providers for 5+ years, has never been able to watch a single show on Netflix, can't watch YouTube, etc. etc. He's had Starlink for about a month now. yesterday he was in a conference all day, sharing his screen, etc. and it was flawless then entire day. Absolutely game changing, and we both agreed all the existing sat providers (Hughesnet, Xplorenet, etc.) are all utterly doomed.
- shaklee3 5y ago
  That's completely false. All major satellite providers can easily stream Netflix.
Kye 5y ago
>> 'Using Starlink “in a manner that is obscene, sexually explicit, ...' What possible reason could they have for banning this? They put "sexually explicit" in with a list of things that are completely different, morally speaking. I know what's moral and what's not is up for argument but, despite all the other negative things I could say about Elon Musk, prude is not among them.
nonameiguess 5y ago
Believe I'm supposed to get it in October (maybe September?). We'll see. The reported speeds here are more than I'm getting from Spectrum, where I pay for 400 down and consistently can't get any better than 80. And hopefully Starlink won't make it possible for prospective neighbors to DOS me by accidentally typoing their move-in address and Spectrum shutting down my account without asking because they just assume that must mean I'm moving out. Lost a full day of work thanks to that one. I am more than willing to accept a beta product just to stick it to existing ISPs. If it gets better, great. If it doesn't, it's still better than Spectrum. I do have an unobstructured view and have the tallest building in my neighborhood, so that shouldn't be a problem.
- SiempreViernes 5y ago
  Just the bit about making it accessible so you can get it indoors when it's windy left then?
ianhanschen 5y ago
Guess I'm done reading the verge. I've watched many, many Starlink reviews out of curiosity and this is the only one so tinged by the author's mood. It's clearly written as a kind of hit-piece. While other reviewers mention that the software specifically does not allow a device to be used outside of the area it is registered at (for FCC reasons), this piece mentions "The dish is small and light enough that you can easily move it to different locations, but you’re not guaranteed service anywhere but the address where you signed up." As if it's a coverage issue, and not the software blocking it from being used - which Starlink is very clear about. This was bad.
- gamblor956 5y ago
  How is this a hit piece? The quote is an objective statement of fact, and most of the review has objectively positive things to say about Starlink, especially considering that the author lives in rural America. Starlink made bold claims. And in its present state, does not live up to them. Starlink doesn't get to excuse the bold claims it is making right now on the basis that it might one day live up to them. If they want to be judged on their performance today they need to stop basing their marketing around the version of Starlink 5 years from now.
  - skybrian 5y ago
    They sort of made bold claims but they also called it their “better than nothing beta” to lower expectations. From starlink.com: > During beta, users can expect to see data speeds vary from 50Mb/s to 150Mb/s and latency from 20ms to 40ms in most locations over the next several months as we enhance the Starlink system. There will also be brief periods of no connectivity at all. (The trick is getting other people to do the marketing for you.)
- ncmncm 5y ago
  I found Nilay's to be the most useful review I have encountered. It pulled-no-punches, as any good review must. I know from this review that Starlink, as it is now, would not be usable at my house in New York, nor at my house in California. The California house depends on local microwave, which works pretty well in dry weather, but is not broadband by any modern standard. Years ago, ATT laid fiber to within, literally, yards of the house–just across the street–and collected a half $billion federal subsidy (paid by taxing old-fashioned, wired phone subscribers) for that, but never lit it. I was stuck on ATT 3Mb DSL for years, and dropped it the moment there was a viable alternative at twice the price. (I could have switched to Comcast, lately. But that would be Comcast.) Starlink might be usable, in time. When it is, Verge most likely will publish another review. I expect it will also pull no punches, and I await it as eagerly as I await Starlink to leave Beta status. But my seething hatred for ATT will not fade in this lifetime. (Doubtless I would feel the same about Comcast, given any contact.)
belval 5y ago
I think the comments are a bit harsh. The reviewer did what I would consider a reasonable job testing the device, did mention that had he placed the dish higher up it would've helped with the various issues he encountered. He also explains that he is judging the device based on its current status because even though it is still in beta, people are signing up because there is an absolute lack of alternatives. Not saying that his is a high-quality article, but most of the comments implied that this was an unfair/biased review and I don't see it.
- mips_avatar 5y ago
  The article was doing the wrong value comparison. Nilay claims he has "rural" internet, but he gets 325/25 from his ISP. I don't know many people outside of major metros with that kind of speed, he has a great connection. Starlink isn't valuable for people in his situation, and he shouldn't have implied he has typical rural problems. Starlink is a gamechanger for most rural people (less than 25/5). I technically had a 45/5 connection but it was so unreliable that Starlink has beaten it on reliability and speed.
  - belval 5y ago
    I completely agree that the device is not for him and that this is far from a high quality review. My point is more that I read the comments on HN before the article and there were almost accusing him of being voluntarily badmouthing starlink and the product, whereas the article still has some nuance.
pomian 5y ago
Had Starlink for about a month now. It's fantastic. Setup was beautiful. Automatic. No phone app needed. Took about ten minutes to warm up and automatically find satellite. Since then it's snowed 4-5 times, rained hard 7-8 times, 2 - 100 mph windstorms. Keeps working. It's beta. There are interruptions. But can watch anything, zoom, stream, internet in high definition. Upload and download speeds excellent. Dish is sitting on the lawn as it has been from beginning. Nothing to complain about. Obviously we live in the country-side. LTE in our area is available, but more sporadic than this. And limited. Both up and down.

52 points by longdefeat 5y ago

There is a good and useful reality check in there, but it’s also written in a style that’s looking for a fight, so I’m reluctant to recommend it.

TerminalSystem3 5y ago
Yeah, this reads like clickbait. The Verge has really gone down the tubes, I never go there anymore - too consumed with political causes. My guess is that some boss ordered the writer to make the review as negative as possible, probably because they have a bone to pick with Elon Musk.
- skybrian 5y ago
  It’s a very common writing style that many people use even when their business doesn’t depend on page views. No need to look further than that, people need to make a living and are rewarded for doing what they do naturally. I mean, your guess is plausible but also kind of clickbaity speculation. We all do it. At least they actually tested the product a bit.
- pholbrook 5y ago
  The writer, Nilay Patel, is editor-in-chief of The Verge.

scotuswroteus 5y ago

Cities see Starlink as a reason they shouldn't invest in conduit and fiber, in case wireline proves to be an obsolete technology. None of the legislation currently on offer achieves what we need as a country, which is to collectively tear up our streets and connect every home and business with gig fiber as a utility. We'll never get there. This country will always have shitty internet.

nosmokewhereiam 5y ago
RF.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tzs 5y ago
Starlink will not have enough aggregate bandwidth, even when the full constellation is deployed, to be a factor when it comes to city planning for broadband.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
People keep peddling this "LTE/5G/Starlink will replace fiber" but its all shale oil salesmen and politicans unwilling to byte the bullet. RF physics prevents it
- p_j_w 5y ago
  >RF physics prevents it This point isn't widely understood, but it's absolutely true. Anyone interested in learning more can start at Shannon-Hartley: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theore...

CommieBobDole 5y ago

So, to summarize the article: "Incomplete beta product is not that great because it's incomplete and beta" Seriously, half the article deals with connectivity issues caused by the satellite constellation being only partially complete.

throwawaysea 5y ago
It’s The Verge, which is part of Vox Media - they aren’t exactly objective, and are one of the most left biased publications out there. In recent times there’s been an ecosystem of hate coming from the left (in news, social media) towards Elon Musk for his quirks, success, and libertarian comments. In my mind it explains these cheap articles trying to diminish efforts like Starlink.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Like calling divers that risk their lives to save children pedoes because his PR-stunt submarine didnt work?
  - throwawaysea 5y ago
    Comments like yours are exactly what I am referring to. They constitute a purity test used to attempt a character assassination of one of the most successful and impactful humans of all time. It's tired, it's unproductive, and it is entirely bereft of any sense of balance against all that he's done.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      Are you trolling? Labelling someone a pedo in front of millions is the definition of character assasination.
      - ecpottinger 5y ago
        Yet say NOTHING about how well Starlink runs.

mips_avatar 5y ago

I use starlink to work remotely, and it's a massive improvement from my DSL. Even with beta downtime, I am more reliably connecting to video calls, and remote desktop. I wish the verge would come and review my DSL connection for fair comparison.

new_realist 5y ago
Is T-Mobile's 5G Internet service available in your area?
- mips_avatar 5y ago
  No
olyjohn 5y ago
Really? My DSL line is the only thing that works for Zoom meetings without dropping. Starlink still has tons of hiccups, drops and stutters. Even RDP and SSH works better over the DSL line for me. My DSL line is only 1.5Mb/768Kb. So downloads are slow. I have even done 2 simultaneous Zoom meetings on that DSL line without any problems. That said, the Starlink connection has gotten better even since I started using it. If it's still like this when it's out of Beta though, I'll be hugely disappointed.
- mips_avatar 5y ago
  Must have a better DSL connection than mine. I have had centurylink link technicians over frequently and nothing has fixed it.

NDizzle 5y ago

I'm enjoying my experience, but I anticipated the problems and kept my other ISPs. I've seen pings around 55ms at lowest. My other LTE providers are 70 to 95ms, and there is a difference. I'm in rural NW Arkansas and I have two LTE providers plus Starlink. I'm not even using bonding - tons of things support multiple tcp streams, and those that don't it's worthwhile to have each ISP be fairly strong. Worst case my speed tests will show 150mbit / 20mbit. Best case it's 300mbit / 90mbit. I do have the Starlink connection on a 5 second watchdog, so I will see 5 seconds of nothing when things aren't ideal, before the connection is retried over one of the other ISPs.

rsynnott 5y ago
Huh. That’s quite high for LTE, more what you’d expect of HSDPA. Are they definitely LTE? Just did a speed test on my phone’s LTE; 15ms, which is about what I’d expect.
- NDizzle 5y ago
  Hey, sorry, missed this. Yes, it's LTE. One is T-Mobile's home internet product. The other is in a device I assembled myself, using an EM160G modem. ATT service. My ping is high due to my location. I "hit the internet" in typically Dallas, TX, ~300 miles away. Sometimes it shows me in Colorado, Minnesota, Kansas, and Tennessee. It depends on what the LTE providers want to do with me!
throwaway888abc 5y ago
Check the OpenMPTCProuter - you will be positively surprised https://www.openmptcprouter.com/ https://www.openmptcprouter.com/

grecy 5y ago

Was chatting to a friend last night who lives in Canada just North of the border, about 20 minutes from a decent sized town. He's been using different sat providers for 5+ years, has never been able to watch a single show on Netflix, can't watch YouTube, etc. etc. He's had Starlink for about a month now. yesterday he was in a conference all day, sharing his screen, etc. and it was flawless then entire day. Absolutely game changing, and we both agreed all the existing sat providers (Hughesnet, Xplorenet, etc.) are all utterly doomed.

shaklee3 5y ago
That's completely false. All major satellite providers can easily stream Netflix.

Kye 5y ago

>> 'Using Starlink “in a manner that is obscene, sexually explicit, ...' What possible reason could they have for banning this? They put "sexually explicit" in with a list of things that are completely different, morally speaking. I know what's moral and what's not is up for argument but, despite all the other negative things I could say about Elon Musk, prude is not among them.

nonameiguess 5y ago

Believe I'm supposed to get it in October (maybe September?). We'll see. The reported speeds here are more than I'm getting from Spectrum, where I pay for 400 down and consistently can't get any better than 80. And hopefully Starlink won't make it possible for prospective neighbors to DOS me by accidentally typoing their move-in address and Spectrum shutting down my account without asking because they just assume that must mean I'm moving out. Lost a full day of work thanks to that one. I am more than willing to accept a beta product just to stick it to existing ISPs. If it gets better, great. If it doesn't, it's still better than Spectrum. I do have an unobstructured view and have the tallest building in my neighborhood, so that shouldn't be a problem.

SiempreViernes 5y ago
Just the bit about making it accessible so you can get it indoors when it's windy left then?

ianhanschen 5y ago

Guess I'm done reading the verge. I've watched many, many Starlink reviews out of curiosity and this is the only one so tinged by the author's mood. It's clearly written as a kind of hit-piece. While other reviewers mention that the software specifically does not allow a device to be used outside of the area it is registered at (for FCC reasons), this piece mentions "The dish is small and light enough that you can easily move it to different locations, but you’re not guaranteed service anywhere but the address where you signed up." As if it's a coverage issue, and not the software blocking it from being used - which Starlink is very clear about. This was bad.

gamblor956 5y ago
How is this a hit piece? The quote is an objective statement of fact, and most of the review has objectively positive things to say about Starlink, especially considering that the author lives in rural America. Starlink made bold claims. And in its present state, does not live up to them. Starlink doesn't get to excuse the bold claims it is making right now on the basis that it might one day live up to them. If they want to be judged on their performance today they need to stop basing their marketing around the version of Starlink 5 years from now.
- skybrian 5y ago
  They sort of made bold claims but they also called it their “better than nothing beta” to lower expectations. From starlink.com: > During beta, users can expect to see data speeds vary from 50Mb/s to 150Mb/s and latency from 20ms to 40ms in most locations over the next several months as we enhance the Starlink system. There will also be brief periods of no connectivity at all. (The trick is getting other people to do the marketing for you.)
ncmncm 5y ago
I found Nilay's to be the most useful review I have encountered. It pulled-no-punches, as any good review must. I know from this review that Starlink, as it is now, would not be usable at my house in New York, nor at my house in California. The California house depends on local microwave, which works pretty well in dry weather, but is not broadband by any modern standard. Years ago, ATT laid fiber to within, literally, yards of the house–just across the street–and collected a half $billion federal subsidy (paid by taxing old-fashioned, wired phone subscribers) for that, but never lit it. I was stuck on ATT 3Mb DSL for years, and dropped it the moment there was a viable alternative at twice the price. (I could have switched to Comcast, lately. But that would be Comcast.) Starlink might be usable, in time. When it is, Verge most likely will publish another review. I expect it will also pull no punches, and I await it as eagerly as I await Starlink to leave Beta status. But my seething hatred for ATT will not fade in this lifetime. (Doubtless I would feel the same about Comcast, given any contact.)

belval 5y ago

I think the comments are a bit harsh. The reviewer did what I would consider a reasonable job testing the device, did mention that had he placed the dish higher up it would've helped with the various issues he encountered. He also explains that he is judging the device based on its current status because even though it is still in beta, people are signing up because there is an absolute lack of alternatives. Not saying that his is a high-quality article, but most of the comments implied that this was an unfair/biased review and I don't see it.

mips_avatar 5y ago
The article was doing the wrong value comparison. Nilay claims he has "rural" internet, but he gets 325/25 from his ISP. I don't know many people outside of major metros with that kind of speed, he has a great connection. Starlink isn't valuable for people in his situation, and he shouldn't have implied he has typical rural problems. Starlink is a gamechanger for most rural people (less than 25/5). I technically had a 45/5 connection but it was so unreliable that Starlink has beaten it on reliability and speed.
- belval 5y ago
  I completely agree that the device is not for him and that this is far from a high quality review. My point is more that I read the comments on HN before the article and there were almost accusing him of being voluntarily badmouthing starlink and the product, whereas the article still has some nuance.

pomian 5y ago

Had Starlink for about a month now. It's fantastic. Setup was beautiful. Automatic. No phone app needed. Took about ten minutes to warm up and automatically find satellite. Since then it's snowed 4-5 times, rained hard 7-8 times, 2 - 100 mph windstorms. Keeps working. It's beta. There are interruptions. But can watch anything, zoom, stream, internet in high definition. Upload and download speeds excellent. Dish is sitting on the lawn as it has been from beginning. Nothing to complain about. Obviously we live in the country-side. LTE in our area is available, but more sporadic than this. And limited. Both up and down.