5 ms·

My feeling was that outside of FAANG you would have to move to Zone 3-4 or share a flat. Combined with the hassle for EU citizen nowadays to get a work permit

My feeling was that outside of FAANG you would have to move to Zone 3-4 or share a flat. Combined with the hassle for EU citizen nowadays to get a work permit it does not sound so enticing anymore. Though for FAANG London still seems to have a better ratio of salary to CoL than Dublin.

ben_w 5y ago
Even as a British citizen who likes city life, London in particular never tempted me, because of both the nationally infamous housing cost and the un-fun experience of Tube travel.
- coob 5y ago
  The Tube's not the only way to get around London! Zone 1 maybe, but commuter rail is pretty decent by international standards (apart from Southern).
  - madaxe_again 5y ago
    I used to commute by boat, from Putney Pier to Embankment and back. Short walk to both the office and home at either end, and it was marginally cheaper than a season ticket on the tube, and infinitely more pleasant, usually.
  - botwriter 5y ago
    South Eastern is terrible aswell. No real 1st class seating (you'd never know other than its clearly marked) and no damn plugs unless you're on the one High speed line.
  - cameronh90 5y ago
    Also bicycle is good. If you pick the right place (look at the cycleways map), you can usually find somewhere with a mostly off-road cycle route from home to your office.
- fastball 5y ago
  Last time I lived in London I actually enjoyed trying to use the bus as much as possible. Riding on the top of a double decker bus is a nice experience: there is almost always seating available, the views are better, the air is less stuffy / you're less likely to melt in the summer, you are more likely to get directly from point A to point B, and it's cheaper. All that combined means it's much easier / more enjoyable to do some work / read a book on your commute if you're using the bus, which for me was worth the extra journey time. Obviously for longer journeys you still need the tube/train, but I lived fairly centrally so was able to either bus or bike 90% of the time.
- varispeed 5y ago
  I lived in London most of my life, but I am thinking about moving to a smaller city. What would you recommend in terms of safety, access to tech scene and property prices? It's much easier to get a remote gig, so it seems like a location will no longer be a problem.
  - Hard_Space 5y ago
    If you're looking for pastoral splendor and thinking beyond the extreme commuter belt, try the north-east. I went out with a lady from there for some years, and traveled up from London most weekends. Like Romania, it has an almost impenetrable firewall of negative PR that isn't born out by the experience of living there. Yes, there's an ugly old ICI factory that covers several square miles (the emblem of the region). But everything beyond that is gorgeous, green and largely untrammeled. I shall never forget walking through waterfall-strewn valleys and splendid forests and meeting hardly anyone else except some friendly dog-walkers.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    I definitely enjoyed Cambridge and its commuter villages. Lots of tech employment, the villages are cheaper than the city itself and close enough to commute by bicycle. Plymouth was decent enough, but I was only there as an industrial placement student, so I’m not sure about non-student prices. Aberystwyth is pretty, but tiny, ~4 hours from anywhere that isn’t rural Wales regardless of your mode of transport, and literally 30% of the population are students. I didn’t stay long after graduation precisely because of the lack of tech jobs. Portsmouth area is terrible for the tech scene — I grew up close to there, my siblings still live nearby, but when one of them was job hunting they ended up getting one just outside Farnborough with a one hour commute. Sheffield is cheap, but I was trying to be a self-employed game dev when I was there, so I can’t say anything about the tech scene. If you still care about location for everything except work, there’s lots of pretty countryside on the South Downs, Norfolk, Aberystwyth area, and west of Sheffield. St. Ives (the one near Cambridge) is probably one of the best combinations of cheap and pretty (just be aware of the flood zones).
    - varispeed 5y ago
ggambetta 5y ago
I used to live in Harrow on the Hill. Zone 5, but great connection to central London with the metropolitan line. Much better commute than when I lived in Parsons Green, which was zone 2!
txdv 5y ago
London is contention zone for billionaires and millionaires buying up property left and right. What kid of property can you buy if you are a good software dev working at FAANG?
- declnz 5y ago
  How long have you been working there (deposits are a major factor in mortgages here)?
  - txdv 5y ago
    I live in east Europe, work in IT and I am just trying to gauge how comfortable you can live with big tech money in London
    - spuz 5y ago
      If you have a partner on a similarly decent salary, then probably quite comfortably. If you are the only significant earner, then probably not that comfortably. I managed to buy a 2-bed flat in zone 2 in 2013 for £400k but it has no garden and has other downsides that I would have liked to avoid if I could have afforded more. You have to really be earning CEO levels of pay or buy with a partner in order to live really comfortably within zone 2.
- barrkel 5y ago
  We own a 3 story 4 bedroom townhouse with garden and garage in Enfield, ~ 400k. Mortgage is about 1400 a month. The countryside is close by, both Hertfordshire and Essex. Housing is expensive in rough proportion to how central you are, and especially how close to tube stations you are. But it's also possible to live quite well. My commute would be a little over 1 hour each way by public transport, but I generally used a motorbike, closer to 35 minutes. We are however leaving, in large part due to Brexit. I'm Irish, my partner is German, and neither of us wants our son to be schooled in this country. The political situation is heading in an Orban-like direction, they're locking up EU citizens at the border and the anti-EU rhetoric from leadership and tabloids is relentless. I would not come here as an EU citizen. I quit my job and joined Google in part because they'll relocate me to Zurich.
acta_non_verba 5y ago
“Hassle” is relative. It’s just as easy or easier than the 220 countries outside the EU. Ya know, the ones with north of 20x the population of the EU.
- WJW 5y ago
  How many people do you think live in the EU? Because the largest countries (China and India, respectively) 'only' have about 1.3 billion people each, about 3x the EU at 450 million. Even the entire rest of the earth combined won't get you to "north of 20x" that number.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  As some who has to get work permits in 2 different countries, and have friends who did in 10, I can testify that British immigration system is one of the most difficult, arbitrary and expensive, far supassing Spain, portugal, Germany, Czech Republic, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Ireland, France, etc The only immigration system I am aware of that's more hostile is US. Obviously there are many countries I know nothing about
  - botwriter 5y ago
    You're doing it wrong mate you need to cross the channel in a rubber dingy and you get everything for free!
  - guenthert 5y ago
    I'd think that's an outlier experience. Clearly it depends on various circumstances and there is a more of less hidden institutionalized racism involved, but as a German, immigrating to USA was smooth sailing (via green card lottery in my case). More important however might be the interaction with locals. And from what I witnessed, Americans (well, Californians at least) are much more welcoming than Germans.
quietbritishjim 5y ago
> outside of FAANG ... Or working for a bank, which is the classic high-paid London job. The pure software engineers get paid less than quants/traders (which can get astronomical comp depending on what exactly they do) but usually still very substantial.
cameronh90 5y ago
I've never worked for a FAANG, and I live in a 2 bed flat, a 10 minute commute to my office in central London. I am not pushing my budget. There are plenty of well paying tech jobs outside of FAANG, but many of them are in finance.
- angrais 5y ago
  What's your monthly salary and your rent? What you consider not pushing a budget may not be the same for most.
  - cameronh90 5y ago
    I'm spending about 18% of my salary on rent, which is well below the national average. I'm hoping to buy a house soon which will be more of a challenge.
    - angrais 5y ago
      Well done mate! 18% is very low, which is great. Are you sharing rent with a housemate or partner?

ben_w 5y ago

Even as a British citizen who likes city life, London in particular never tempted me, because of both the nationally infamous housing cost and the un-fun experience of Tube travel.

coob 5y ago
The Tube's not the only way to get around London! Zone 1 maybe, but commuter rail is pretty decent by international standards (apart from Southern).
- madaxe_again 5y ago
  I used to commute by boat, from Putney Pier to Embankment and back. Short walk to both the office and home at either end, and it was marginally cheaper than a season ticket on the tube, and infinitely more pleasant, usually.
- botwriter 5y ago
  South Eastern is terrible aswell. No real 1st class seating (you'd never know other than its clearly marked) and no damn plugs unless you're on the one High speed line.
- cameronh90 5y ago
  Also bicycle is good. If you pick the right place (look at the cycleways map), you can usually find somewhere with a mostly off-road cycle route from home to your office.
fastball 5y ago
Last time I lived in London I actually enjoyed trying to use the bus as much as possible. Riding on the top of a double decker bus is a nice experience: there is almost always seating available, the views are better, the air is less stuffy / you're less likely to melt in the summer, you are more likely to get directly from point A to point B, and it's cheaper. All that combined means it's much easier / more enjoyable to do some work / read a book on your commute if you're using the bus, which for me was worth the extra journey time. Obviously for longer journeys you still need the tube/train, but I lived fairly centrally so was able to either bus or bike 90% of the time.
varispeed 5y ago
I lived in London most of my life, but I am thinking about moving to a smaller city. What would you recommend in terms of safety, access to tech scene and property prices? It's much easier to get a remote gig, so it seems like a location will no longer be a problem.
- Hard_Space 5y ago
  If you're looking for pastoral splendor and thinking beyond the extreme commuter belt, try the north-east. I went out with a lady from there for some years, and traveled up from London most weekends. Like Romania, it has an almost impenetrable firewall of negative PR that isn't born out by the experience of living there. Yes, there's an ugly old ICI factory that covers several square miles (the emblem of the region). But everything beyond that is gorgeous, green and largely untrammeled. I shall never forget walking through waterfall-strewn valleys and splendid forests and meeting hardly anyone else except some friendly dog-walkers.
- ben_w 5y ago
  I definitely enjoyed Cambridge and its commuter villages. Lots of tech employment, the villages are cheaper than the city itself and close enough to commute by bicycle. Plymouth was decent enough, but I was only there as an industrial placement student, so I’m not sure about non-student prices. Aberystwyth is pretty, but tiny, ~4 hours from anywhere that isn’t rural Wales regardless of your mode of transport, and literally 30% of the population are students. I didn’t stay long after graduation precisely because of the lack of tech jobs. Portsmouth area is terrible for the tech scene — I grew up close to there, my siblings still live nearby, but when one of them was job hunting they ended up getting one just outside Farnborough with a one hour commute. Sheffield is cheap, but I was trying to be a self-employed game dev when I was there, so I can’t say anything about the tech scene. If you still care about location for everything except work, there’s lots of pretty countryside on the South Downs, Norfolk, Aberystwyth area, and west of Sheffield. St. Ives (the one near Cambridge) is probably one of the best combinations of cheap and pretty (just be aware of the flood zones).
  - varispeed 5y ago

ggambetta 5y ago

I used to live in Harrow on the Hill. Zone 5, but great connection to central London with the metropolitan line. Much better commute than when I lived in Parsons Green, which was zone 2!

txdv 5y ago

London is contention zone for billionaires and millionaires buying up property left and right. What kid of property can you buy if you are a good software dev working at FAANG?

declnz 5y ago
How long have you been working there (deposits are a major factor in mortgages here)?
- txdv 5y ago
  I live in east Europe, work in IT and I am just trying to gauge how comfortable you can live with big tech money in London
  - spuz 5y ago
    If you have a partner on a similarly decent salary, then probably quite comfortably. If you are the only significant earner, then probably not that comfortably. I managed to buy a 2-bed flat in zone 2 in 2013 for £400k but it has no garden and has other downsides that I would have liked to avoid if I could have afforded more. You have to really be earning CEO levels of pay or buy with a partner in order to live really comfortably within zone 2.
barrkel 5y ago
We own a 3 story 4 bedroom townhouse with garden and garage in Enfield, ~ 400k. Mortgage is about 1400 a month. The countryside is close by, both Hertfordshire and Essex. Housing is expensive in rough proportion to how central you are, and especially how close to tube stations you are. But it's also possible to live quite well. My commute would be a little over 1 hour each way by public transport, but I generally used a motorbike, closer to 35 minutes. We are however leaving, in large part due to Brexit. I'm Irish, my partner is German, and neither of us wants our son to be schooled in this country. The political situation is heading in an Orban-like direction, they're locking up EU citizens at the border and the anti-EU rhetoric from leadership and tabloids is relentless. I would not come here as an EU citizen. I quit my job and joined Google in part because they'll relocate me to Zurich.

acta_non_verba 5y ago

“Hassle” is relative. It’s just as easy or easier than the 220 countries outside the EU. Ya know, the ones with north of 20x the population of the EU.

WJW 5y ago
How many people do you think live in the EU? Because the largest countries (China and India, respectively) 'only' have about 1.3 billion people each, about 3x the EU at 450 million. Even the entire rest of the earth combined won't get you to "north of 20x" that number.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
As some who has to get work permits in 2 different countries, and have friends who did in 10, I can testify that British immigration system is one of the most difficult, arbitrary and expensive, far supassing Spain, portugal, Germany, Czech Republic, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Ireland, France, etc The only immigration system I am aware of that's more hostile is US. Obviously there are many countries I know nothing about
- botwriter 5y ago
  You're doing it wrong mate you need to cross the channel in a rubber dingy and you get everything for free!
- guenthert 5y ago
  I'd think that's an outlier experience. Clearly it depends on various circumstances and there is a more of less hidden institutionalized racism involved, but as a German, immigrating to USA was smooth sailing (via green card lottery in my case). More important however might be the interaction with locals. And from what I witnessed, Americans (well, Californians at least) are much more welcoming than Germans.

quietbritishjim 5y ago

> outside of FAANG ... Or working for a bank, which is the classic high-paid London job. The pure software engineers get paid less than quants/traders (which can get astronomical comp depending on what exactly they do) but usually still very substantial.

cameronh90 5y ago

I've never worked for a FAANG, and I live in a 2 bed flat, a 10 minute commute to my office in central London. I am not pushing my budget. There are plenty of well paying tech jobs outside of FAANG, but many of them are in finance.

angrais 5y ago
What's your monthly salary and your rent? What you consider not pushing a budget may not be the same for most.
- cameronh90 5y ago
  I'm spending about 18% of my salary on rent, which is well below the national average. I'm hoping to buy a house soon which will be more of a challenge.
  - angrais 5y ago
    Well done mate! 18% is very low, which is great. Are you sharing rent with a housemate or partner?