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They should move to Matrix. Decentralised, federated, and just that wee bit more modern. I say that as an IRC user for at least 2 decades and a recent convert

They should move to Matrix. Decentralised, federated, and just that wee bit more modern. I say that as an IRC user for at least 2 decades and a recent convert to Matrix.

wayoutthere 5y ago
Probably ok for most current irc use cases; but the mobile clients for Matrix suck. I’ve also had “eventual consistency” issues with the protocol. Discord is probably the closest spiritual successor to irc (the types of communities using discord are the same types of communities that used irc in the past).
- simlevesque 5y ago
  Discord is a private company, IRC and Matrix are protocols.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    Similarly, no one wants "email". They want gmail, or some other service that gives them email. IRC is not a home. Discord is a home. FreeNode is (was?) a home. The admin and moderation team (and the corporate structure therein) makes a difference that technical details cannot replicate.
    - vbsteven 5y ago
      The point is that IRC as a protocol makes it possible to join the FreeNode “home” from any compatible client on any platform. And users can modify most of these clients to their liking. Same with email or Matrix. But with Discord users are locked in to use the closed source Discord clients, or reverse engineer the discord “protocol” and risk being banned because of it.
      - anticensor 5y ago
        Ripcord (third party client) and Litecord (third party server) exist.
        Macha 5y ago
        Here is Discord's official policy on it: > You are not mistaken. We do not support 3rd party clients, and they are not allowed per our ToS/API ToS. https://old.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/8tukek/ripcord_unofficial_native_discord_client_no/e1adbu5/ https://old.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/8tukek/ripcord_...
        anticensor 5y ago
        And here is what Jake Henry, the antispam engineer of Discord, said: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25224151 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25224151
        Macha 5y ago
        So "You might get banned for it, if you ask nicely we might unban you, don't do it again" is not exactly the same level of supports third party clients that IRC or Matrix do.
    - ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
      > no one wants "email" > They want ... some ... service that gives them email. Aren't these two statements contradictory? "I have email" and "I have email service" mean the same thing to me.
    - _flux 5y ago
      How many would want gmail if or any other service that could only exchange messages with other users of the same system? Email is what makes it happen that systems can exchange messages with each other. Much like Matrix. Much unlike Discord.
- scarygliders 5y ago
  Discord is a centrally controlled walled garden. The whole point of Matrix is decentralisation and federation - which is closer to the spirit of IRC than what Discord is. Also, Matrix is a protocol, not a centralised service like Discord.
  - sascha_sl 5y ago
    And? The kinda of communities that used to be on IRC and aren't invested in the "indie web" are on Discord. That's just a fact. I don't like it either, but I totally get it when when Synapse+Element are still a slow inconsistent error-throwing mess if you don't disable federation (which all large-name adopters have done).
    - fastball 5y ago
      Right, people who want what Discord offers are already on Discord. For everyone else (the people that are still on IRC 20 years later) Matrix is probably more what they're looking for.
    - kitkat_new 5y ago
      > I don't like it either, but I totally get it when when Synapse+Element are still a slow inconsistent error-throwing mess if you don't disable federation It isn't really. I can't confirm this despite being part of the biggest rooms in the network on matrix.org. It was slow (very slow) once (when Matrix grow and Synapse wasn't scalable), but that has been in the past for a while now
      - sascha_sl 5y ago
        I tried this, weeks ago. Joining rooms timed out on the client, and took about an half an hour to an hour to sync up to a point I'd assume it'd be reliable. Sort of. That's probably all fine once you're settled in, but "the largest rooms" aren't even close to as active as a typical Discord server. It'd be a horrible drop-in replacement for Discord right now.
        5y ago
- _jal 5y ago
  > Discord is probably the closest spiritual successor to irc Uh, some locked down corporate please-read-your-terms-of-service closed-source crapware? That's pretty much the exact opposite.
- BlueTemplar 5y ago
  How do mobile clients for Matrix suck ?
  - scarygliders 5y ago
    No idea. I've had no problems with either my homeserver nor with Element -desktop or -android.
- anticensor 5y ago
  Discord is also eventually consistent. It is centralised and offers weaker consistency guarantees than Matrix.
- Macha 5y ago
  Compared to mobile IRC clients? Element is a big improvement. Discord is out, as others have mentioned, for being controlled by a single corporation.

They should move to Matrix. Decentralised, federated, and just that wee bit more modern. I say that as an IRC user for at least 2 decades and a recent convert to Matrix.

wayoutthere 5y ago

Probably ok for most current irc use cases; but the mobile clients for Matrix suck. I’ve also had “eventual consistency” issues with the protocol. Discord is probably the closest spiritual successor to irc (the types of communities using discord are the same types of communities that used irc in the past).

simlevesque 5y ago
Discord is a private company, IRC and Matrix are protocols.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Similarly, no one wants "email". They want gmail, or some other service that gives them email. IRC is not a home. Discord is a home. FreeNode is (was?) a home. The admin and moderation team (and the corporate structure therein) makes a difference that technical details cannot replicate.
  - vbsteven 5y ago
    The point is that IRC as a protocol makes it possible to join the FreeNode “home” from any compatible client on any platform. And users can modify most of these clients to their liking. Same with email or Matrix. But with Discord users are locked in to use the closed source Discord clients, or reverse engineer the discord “protocol” and risk being banned because of it.
    - anticensor 5y ago
      Ripcord (third party client) and Litecord (third party server) exist.
      - Macha 5y ago
        Here is Discord's official policy on it: > You are not mistaken. We do not support 3rd party clients, and they are not allowed per our ToS/API ToS. https://old.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/8tukek/ripcord_unofficial_native_discord_client_no/e1adbu5/ https://old.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/8tukek/ripcord_...
        anticensor 5y ago
        And here is what Jake Henry, the antispam engineer of Discord, said: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25224151 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25224151
        Macha 5y ago
        So "You might get banned for it, if you ask nicely we might unban you, don't do it again" is not exactly the same level of supports third party clients that IRC or Matrix do.
  - ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
    > no one wants "email" > They want ... some ... service that gives them email. Aren't these two statements contradictory? "I have email" and "I have email service" mean the same thing to me.
  - _flux 5y ago
    How many would want gmail if or any other service that could only exchange messages with other users of the same system? Email is what makes it happen that systems can exchange messages with each other. Much like Matrix. Much unlike Discord.
scarygliders 5y ago
Discord is a centrally controlled walled garden. The whole point of Matrix is decentralisation and federation - which is closer to the spirit of IRC than what Discord is. Also, Matrix is a protocol, not a centralised service like Discord.
- sascha_sl 5y ago
  And? The kinda of communities that used to be on IRC and aren't invested in the "indie web" are on Discord. That's just a fact. I don't like it either, but I totally get it when when Synapse+Element are still a slow inconsistent error-throwing mess if you don't disable federation (which all large-name adopters have done).
  - fastball 5y ago
    Right, people who want what Discord offers are already on Discord. For everyone else (the people that are still on IRC 20 years later) Matrix is probably more what they're looking for.
  - kitkat_new 5y ago
    > I don't like it either, but I totally get it when when Synapse+Element are still a slow inconsistent error-throwing mess if you don't disable federation It isn't really. I can't confirm this despite being part of the biggest rooms in the network on matrix.org. It was slow (very slow) once (when Matrix grow and Synapse wasn't scalable), but that has been in the past for a while now
    - sascha_sl 5y ago
      I tried this, weeks ago. Joining rooms timed out on the client, and took about an half an hour to an hour to sync up to a point I'd assume it'd be reliable. Sort of. That's probably all fine once you're settled in, but "the largest rooms" aren't even close to as active as a typical Discord server. It'd be a horrible drop-in replacement for Discord right now.
      - 5y ago
_jal 5y ago
> Discord is probably the closest spiritual successor to irc Uh, some locked down corporate please-read-your-terms-of-service closed-source crapware? That's pretty much the exact opposite.
BlueTemplar 5y ago
How do mobile clients for Matrix suck ?
- scarygliders 5y ago
  No idea. I've had no problems with either my homeserver nor with Element -desktop or -android.
anticensor 5y ago
Discord is also eventually consistent. It is centralised and offers weaker consistency guarantees than Matrix.
Macha 5y ago
Compared to mobile IRC clients? Element is a big improvement. Discord is out, as others have mentioned, for being controlled by a single corporation.