5 ms·

The director of the CDC during most of the pandemic was Robert Redfield. Dr. Fauci is director of the NIH, so his statements are not relevant to the credibilit

by cout 5y ago

The director of the CDC during most of the pandemic was Robert Redfield. Dr. Fauci is director of the NIH, so his statements are not relevant to the credibility of the CDC. In defense of Dr. Fauci's statement, saying "there is no reason right now to wear a mask" is quite different from "masks are ineffective", as it keeps getting paraphrased. The latter is obviously absurd, as there were numerous studies on the effectiveness of masks against various viruses prior to 2020, just not against SARS-CoV-2 specifically, since as far as we know it didn't exist yet.

hellbannedguy 5y ago
Fauci, and way too many Medical Doctors, seemed guenuinly confused over the efficacy of wearing a mask to prevent the spread of he Covid virus. A lot medical professionals were claiming the average person wearing a mask will make things worse by putting it on ineffectively. I heard one doctor say, "All it takes is one virus particle to become infected. I haven't heard any doctor talk about Viral Loads, even now. My point is our medical professionals seemed as much in the "I just don't know?" catagory as the rest of us with this virus. I'm still shocked researchers found a vaccine.
- Veen 5y ago
  Zeynep Tufekci published an excellent article about this. Her thesis is that medical dogma insisted COVID (and other infections) spread through droplets and not aerosols. Social distancing is enough to prevent infection from droplets because they don't travel far. That, it turns out, is wrong, and COVID can spread through smaller respiratory particles that can float, making social distancing alone ineffective. https://www.theinsight.org/p/the-few-sentences-that-explain-much https://www.theinsight.org/p/the-few-sentences-that-explain-...
  - o-__-o 5y ago
    There was information that it was aerosolized from the early days (March) We were lied to because america did not stockpile enough masks for first responders
    - nobodyandproud 5y ago
      I don’t think it was that simple. If the Wired article, which was downvoted to oblivion, is accurate then the WHO and the CDC (who parroted the WHO) bear a great deal of responsibility. They shutdown scientists who were telling them that Covid was spreading as an aerosol, way back in early 2020. The WHO now want MORE power, yet they’re not accepting accountability nor cleaning house.
  - neaanopri 5y ago
    I've read the article, I do just want to clarify the statement "making social distancing alone ineffective." It's still true that if you are covid suceptible, and if a covid-shedding person is walking around, you should try to be as far as possible from the covid. But, a brief close pass e.g. on the sidewalk, isn't as risky as sharing a 20'x10' office for hours, even if you stay >6ft the entire time.
- brobdingnagians 5y ago
  The strange thing is that we have loads of research done over decades about all of this. It appears that the prominent doctors on the news don't know anything about it. Everything pumped out for publicity is about a sixth grade understanding of biology and epidemiology; but we know a lot more, it's just that Fauci doesn't talk about it and neither does the nightly news. If the role of journalists and the government was to inform, we would have well written articles on the loads of studies we have. Journalists should give advanced information in digestible form about topics you didn't need to know about, but which are currently relevant. Instead, we get sixth grade hand waving in propaganda form. Things like adaptive immune response, T-cells, immune escape, antibody dependent enhancement, viral loads, and lots of other things could be explained well but simply. It's a tragedy of modernity that we have so much information and so little understanding.
  - ddxxdd 5y ago
    People can spend their entire lives studying one tiny aspect of our immune system; there are so many interacting, irreducibly complex systems that the average layman can be overwhelmed. But there are simple things that can be explained visually. See, for instance, this video of Japanese scientists illuminating airborne droplets with green lasers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyZm6dx9Hss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyZm6dx9Hss Now, the contention here isn't that there are important concepts that should be explained to layman; the contention here is that there are important concepts that actual scientists need to explain to the decision-makers at the CDC.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  If you’re in the ‘I just don’t know?’ category, how is it defensible to force others to adhere to your apparently unfounded strategies?
o-__-o 5y ago
Fauci had said the reason they made a misspeak about masks is because they were afraid there would not be enough for first responders
- varjag 5y ago
  That sure helped the trust to CDC.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    Trust in the CDC and Fauci only really declined among Republican voters (and was still high). Sometimes, certain people being told not to trust you is a sign you're doing the right thing.
    - varjag 5y ago
      Inefficacy of masks is a central point in anti-maskers message, and sometimes they would cite you the whole passages from official WHO/CDC advisories. And the belated reversal is just an additional point to "scientists don't know shit" attitude. No, yeah it did tremendous damage. While there'd certainly be anti maskers without anti-mask hysteria by authorities, the scale would not be the same. It's hard to quantify but likely many tens of thousands of excess deaths globally are on WHO lies.
      - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
        "anti-mask hysteria by authorities"? People were having difficulty providing evidence that Fauci admitted to telling a white lie elsewhere in these comments, yet it's widely believed by certain people that he did so. There's a link to a factcheck in the comments that quotes what he actually said and it's not at all what many people in this thread seem to sincerely, but mistakenly, think he said. So allow me to doubt that "anti-mask hysteria" was ever coming from the medical and scientific community unless I see exactly what you're talking about and evaluate it with my own eyes. But I guess if we disagree on the facts, that helps explain why we draw different conclusions.
whack 5y ago
> In defense of Dr. Fauci's statement, saying "there is no reason right now to wear a mask" is quite different from "masks are ineffective" If masks are effective, that would be a compelling reason for someone to wear a mask. Saying there is no reason to wear a mask, strongly implies that they aren't beneficial to the individual wearing them. Fauci must have known that this is how people would have interpreted his statements. He should have said "there are very compelling reasons not to wear a mask", which is very different from "there is no reason to wear a mask". I understand that Fauci had good intentions behind his statement. But it's very hard to regain trust after making misleading statements like the above.

by cout 5y ago

hellbannedguy 5y ago

Fauci, and way too many Medical Doctors, seemed guenuinly confused over the efficacy of wearing a mask to prevent the spread of he Covid virus. A lot medical professionals were claiming the average person wearing a mask will make things worse by putting it on ineffectively. I heard one doctor say, "All it takes is one virus particle to become infected. I haven't heard any doctor talk about Viral Loads, even now. My point is our medical professionals seemed as much in the "I just don't know?" catagory as the rest of us with this virus. I'm still shocked researchers found a vaccine.

Veen 5y ago
Zeynep Tufekci published an excellent article about this. Her thesis is that medical dogma insisted COVID (and other infections) spread through droplets and not aerosols. Social distancing is enough to prevent infection from droplets because they don't travel far. That, it turns out, is wrong, and COVID can spread through smaller respiratory particles that can float, making social distancing alone ineffective. https://www.theinsight.org/p/the-few-sentences-that-explain-much https://www.theinsight.org/p/the-few-sentences-that-explain-...
- o-__-o 5y ago
  There was information that it was aerosolized from the early days (March) We were lied to because america did not stockpile enough masks for first responders
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    I don’t think it was that simple. If the Wired article, which was downvoted to oblivion, is accurate then the WHO and the CDC (who parroted the WHO) bear a great deal of responsibility. They shutdown scientists who were telling them that Covid was spreading as an aerosol, way back in early 2020. The WHO now want MORE power, yet they’re not accepting accountability nor cleaning house.
- neaanopri 5y ago
  I've read the article, I do just want to clarify the statement "making social distancing alone ineffective." It's still true that if you are covid suceptible, and if a covid-shedding person is walking around, you should try to be as far as possible from the covid. But, a brief close pass e.g. on the sidewalk, isn't as risky as sharing a 20'x10' office for hours, even if you stay >6ft the entire time.
brobdingnagians 5y ago
The strange thing is that we have loads of research done over decades about all of this. It appears that the prominent doctors on the news don't know anything about it. Everything pumped out for publicity is about a sixth grade understanding of biology and epidemiology; but we know a lot more, it's just that Fauci doesn't talk about it and neither does the nightly news. If the role of journalists and the government was to inform, we would have well written articles on the loads of studies we have. Journalists should give advanced information in digestible form about topics you didn't need to know about, but which are currently relevant. Instead, we get sixth grade hand waving in propaganda form. Things like adaptive immune response, T-cells, immune escape, antibody dependent enhancement, viral loads, and lots of other things could be explained well but simply. It's a tragedy of modernity that we have so much information and so little understanding.
- ddxxdd 5y ago
  People can spend their entire lives studying one tiny aspect of our immune system; there are so many interacting, irreducibly complex systems that the average layman can be overwhelmed. But there are simple things that can be explained visually. See, for instance, this video of Japanese scientists illuminating airborne droplets with green lasers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyZm6dx9Hss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyZm6dx9Hss Now, the contention here isn't that there are important concepts that should be explained to layman; the contention here is that there are important concepts that actual scientists need to explain to the decision-makers at the CDC.
tinus_hn 5y ago
If you’re in the ‘I just don’t know?’ category, how is it defensible to force others to adhere to your apparently unfounded strategies?

o-__-o 5y ago

Fauci had said the reason they made a misspeak about masks is because they were afraid there would not be enough for first responders

varjag 5y ago
That sure helped the trust to CDC.
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  Trust in the CDC and Fauci only really declined among Republican voters (and was still high). Sometimes, certain people being told not to trust you is a sign you're doing the right thing.
  - varjag 5y ago
    Inefficacy of masks is a central point in anti-maskers message, and sometimes they would cite you the whole passages from official WHO/CDC advisories. And the belated reversal is just an additional point to "scientists don't know shit" attitude. No, yeah it did tremendous damage. While there'd certainly be anti maskers without anti-mask hysteria by authorities, the scale would not be the same. It's hard to quantify but likely many tens of thousands of excess deaths globally are on WHO lies.
    - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
      "anti-mask hysteria by authorities"? People were having difficulty providing evidence that Fauci admitted to telling a white lie elsewhere in these comments, yet it's widely believed by certain people that he did so. There's a link to a factcheck in the comments that quotes what he actually said and it's not at all what many people in this thread seem to sincerely, but mistakenly, think he said. So allow me to doubt that "anti-mask hysteria" was ever coming from the medical and scientific community unless I see exactly what you're talking about and evaluate it with my own eyes. But I guess if we disagree on the facts, that helps explain why we draw different conclusions.

whack 5y ago

> In defense of Dr. Fauci's statement, saying "there is no reason right now to wear a mask" is quite different from "masks are ineffective" If masks are effective, that would be a compelling reason for someone to wear a mask. Saying there is no reason to wear a mask, strongly implies that they aren't beneficial to the individual wearing them. Fauci must have known that this is how people would have interpreted his statements. He should have said "there are very compelling reasons not to wear a mask", which is very different from "there is no reason to wear a mask". I understand that Fauci had good intentions behind his statement. But it's very hard to regain trust after making misleading statements like the above.