4 ms·

Thank you, yes, this is where I arrive at. Describing patterns observed from within space-time and ending up modelling a timeless universe seems incoherent to

• ookdatnog 5y ago
  Hm, that's not really what I was trying to say. It does not seem incoherent to me. I feel like I don't understand what you are saying though.
  • dotsam 5y ago
    I'm very likely being the one who is incoherent! My concern is something like this: observing and modelling patterns in the universe can only take place within time. If your models derived from the observed patterns then allow you to model a universe that does not have time, then there is something fishy with the model -- you've bootstrapped a timeless universe that is only intelligible from within time.
    • wolfhumble 5y ago
      I found it interesting, even though I don't (yet?) understand it, that Sir Roger Penrose in this talk/debate with William Lane Craig talks about that "you can have a temporal order without having a time associated with that": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wLtCqm72-Y&t=58m5s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wLtCqm72-Y&t=58m5s