7 ms·

You don't think that the continual dehumanization of people into creatures with eyes, hair, and without emotions is a downside to wearing a mask in public? A s

by abduhl 5y ago

You don't think that the continual dehumanization of people into creatures with eyes, hair, and without emotions is a downside to wearing a mask in public? A smile as you hold the elevator door for someone goes unseen; all the other person gets is a withering stare from behind a sterile surgeon's mask. A joke that's good enough to make someone grin but not laugh is now a joke that falls flat on its face. An inappropriate remark that is met with a frown or pressed lips is now emboldened with apparent silence. Yeah, I think there is some downside to never showing your nose and mouth. Especially when you think of them as more than breathing holes.

machello13 5y ago
You can easily tell whether someone is smiling or not underneath a mask, and I think most people have learned to "smile with their eyes" to make it even more obvious. It's not that big a deal.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  Exactly the eye areas of regular humans (non-sociopaths) are very "vocal" as to emotions if you are paying attention.
- syntheticnature 5y ago
  At the start of all this, I saw someone point out that in Japan, where mask-wearing is more of a thing, their emoticon for smiling is ^_^ while in the US :) is used. One emphasizes the eyes, still visible with a mask on, the other the mouth. (Note: I am not an emoticon expert, let alone a cross-cultural one) Given the number of women I've seen happy that no one has told them to smile during this pandemic, I guess a lot of folks in the US don't know how to tell when eyes are smiling.
jasonlaramburu 5y ago
I think it should be 100% the wearer's choice whether they want to show the world their face or not. Saying 'thank you' to someone opening the door is just as good as a smile. Nobody 'owes' anyone else anything.
- samatman 5y ago
  You were allowed to wear a veil before the pandemic as well, and no one is going to stop you now. I adopted the Asian custom of wearing a surgical mask when feeling under the weather four years ago, for the record. Got a lot of weird looks on the BART, but also some supportive ones from, you guessed it, Asians.
  - XorNot 5y ago
    This is pretty much what I'm intending to do from now on, and retrospectively it is crazy that I thought it was okay not to.
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    Same here, with the N95 mask because I had those for fire season. Same thing. It was fine.
jwilber 5y ago
Surely this is satire.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  I really hope it was satire but I can’t tell anymore. If not, I guess now we add “dehumanization” to the list of horrible effects of wearing a little piece of cloth on your face. I really don’t get why so many people are willing to die on this particular silly hill.
  - wyldfire 5y ago
    I don't have super strong passions here. But reverting to fashion norms seems pretty appropriate, once it's safe. If it's not safe now, when would it be? People do take a lot of cues from facial expressions and at least in "the West" we rarely wear face coverings. So there's definitely some (mild?) cost to wearing the mask, too. I will say this, though -- organizations that insist on compelling others to wear masks outdoors are terribly misguided.
    - jwilber 5y ago
      I think people are purposely under-emphasizing the amount of facial communication still possible with a mask on. Never mind that all these dehumanization scenarios conveniently assume people have somehow lost all ability to utter any sort of noise. If someone wants to continue wearing a mask for a reason with no harmful externalities (e.g. allergies, privacy), respect their personal freedoms and let them.
    - nobody9999 5y ago
      >organizations that insist on compelling others to wear masks outdoors Which organizations might those be? State and local governments? At least in the US, there are more than 50 states/territories, hundreds of cities and more than 3,000 counties. Each of which has separate authority for public health issues. That said, many (perhaps most?) of those entities have been following the CDC guidelines. Those have now changed. As such. it seems likely that many of those 3,000+ entities will change their policy prescriptions.
jancsika 5y ago
> A smile as you hold the elevator door for someone goes unseen; all the other person gets is a withering stare from behind a sterile surgeon's mask. A joke that's good enough to make someone grin but not laugh is now a joke that falls flat on its face. An inappropriate remark that is met with a frown or pressed lips is now emboldened with apparent silence. The only significant communicative downside I've felt over a year of regularly wearing a mask in public is a slight latency at the beginning of friendly conversations with other people. Once my voice takes over the task of communicating intention and tone, I'm golden. (And unless every other mask-wearer has been gaslighting me, they have been golden, too, at least wrt to clear communication.) > Especially when you think of them as more than breathing holes. This has got to be the cutest expression of concern I've ever seen on HN. I feel like the euphemism "Oh, cheese and crackers!" could easily have been in the next sentence. Whatever the case, it sure makes a nice counterpoint to a year of watching Facebook's outrage algo convert disinformed mask-less dipshits into unwitting human bioweapons.
hcurtiss 5y ago
Emphatically agreed. Particularly in our increasingly-polarized and dehumanized culture, smiles are worth saving. Masks definitely do have costs. Severe costs for children at school with new teachers/strangers.

by abduhl 5y ago

machello13 5y ago

You can easily tell whether someone is smiling or not underneath a mask, and I think most people have learned to "smile with their eyes" to make it even more obvious. It's not that big a deal.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Exactly the eye areas of regular humans (non-sociopaths) are very "vocal" as to emotions if you are paying attention.
syntheticnature 5y ago
At the start of all this, I saw someone point out that in Japan, where mask-wearing is more of a thing, their emoticon for smiling is ^_^ while in the US :) is used. One emphasizes the eyes, still visible with a mask on, the other the mouth. (Note: I am not an emoticon expert, let alone a cross-cultural one) Given the number of women I've seen happy that no one has told them to smile during this pandemic, I guess a lot of folks in the US don't know how to tell when eyes are smiling.

jasonlaramburu 5y ago

I think it should be 100% the wearer's choice whether they want to show the world their face or not. Saying 'thank you' to someone opening the door is just as good as a smile. Nobody 'owes' anyone else anything.

samatman 5y ago
You were allowed to wear a veil before the pandemic as well, and no one is going to stop you now. I adopted the Asian custom of wearing a surgical mask when feeling under the weather four years ago, for the record. Got a lot of weird looks on the BART, but also some supportive ones from, you guessed it, Asians.
- XorNot 5y ago
  This is pretty much what I'm intending to do from now on, and retrospectively it is crazy that I thought it was okay not to.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  Same here, with the N95 mask because I had those for fire season. Same thing. It was fine.

jwilber 5y ago

Surely this is satire.

ryandrake 5y ago
I really hope it was satire but I can’t tell anymore. If not, I guess now we add “dehumanization” to the list of horrible effects of wearing a little piece of cloth on your face. I really don’t get why so many people are willing to die on this particular silly hill.
- wyldfire 5y ago
  I don't have super strong passions here. But reverting to fashion norms seems pretty appropriate, once it's safe. If it's not safe now, when would it be? People do take a lot of cues from facial expressions and at least in "the West" we rarely wear face coverings. So there's definitely some (mild?) cost to wearing the mask, too. I will say this, though -- organizations that insist on compelling others to wear masks outdoors are terribly misguided.
  - jwilber 5y ago
    I think people are purposely under-emphasizing the amount of facial communication still possible with a mask on. Never mind that all these dehumanization scenarios conveniently assume people have somehow lost all ability to utter any sort of noise. If someone wants to continue wearing a mask for a reason with no harmful externalities (e.g. allergies, privacy), respect their personal freedoms and let them.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >organizations that insist on compelling others to wear masks outdoors Which organizations might those be? State and local governments? At least in the US, there are more than 50 states/territories, hundreds of cities and more than 3,000 counties. Each of which has separate authority for public health issues. That said, many (perhaps most?) of those entities have been following the CDC guidelines. Those have now changed. As such. it seems likely that many of those 3,000+ entities will change their policy prescriptions.

jancsika 5y ago

> A smile as you hold the elevator door for someone goes unseen; all the other person gets is a withering stare from behind a sterile surgeon's mask. A joke that's good enough to make someone grin but not laugh is now a joke that falls flat on its face. An inappropriate remark that is met with a frown or pressed lips is now emboldened with apparent silence. The only significant communicative downside I've felt over a year of regularly wearing a mask in public is a slight latency at the beginning of friendly conversations with other people. Once my voice takes over the task of communicating intention and tone, I'm golden. (And unless every other mask-wearer has been gaslighting me, they have been golden, too, at least wrt to clear communication.) > Especially when you think of them as more than breathing holes. This has got to be the cutest expression of concern I've ever seen on HN. I feel like the euphemism "Oh, cheese and crackers!" could easily have been in the next sentence. Whatever the case, it sure makes a nice counterpoint to a year of watching Facebook's outrage algo convert disinformed mask-less dipshits into unwitting human bioweapons.

hcurtiss 5y ago

Emphatically agreed. Particularly in our increasingly-polarized and dehumanized culture, smiles are worth saving. Masks definitely do have costs. Severe costs for children at school with new teachers/strangers.