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> “A biosphere full of life means horror and suffering every day for so many living things it potentially eclipses all humanity's past crimes combined.” This i

> “A biosphere full of life means horror and suffering every day for so many living things it potentially eclipses all humanity's past crimes combined.” This is the most astounding perspective on the value of life that I can imagine. Like the argument of a genocidal supervillain.

ithkuil 5y ago
"I have the moral obligation to kill all the living humans today so I spare the suffering of until generations hereafter"?
- deleted 5y ago
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medstrom 5y ago
That's only if you equate the value of life-that-lives-now and life-that-hasn't-been-born-yet. The majority of us value them differently: it's a lot worse to murder than to decline to give birth. Consequently, you can hold the opinion "Don't turn Mars into another biosphere" and nevertheless be against omnicide on Earth.
- throwaway316943 5y ago
  That’s only if you neglect the fact that reproduction is a continuance of life. Literally a part of each living being renews itself to continue living by reproducing either asexually or sexually. Not reproducing is equivalent to murdering your germ line and extinguishing all of the potential invested in you by your ancestors reaching back millions of years or further if you look beyond your own species. Death is death whether caused by direct action or neglect.
  - medstrom 5y ago
    This isn't meant as a rejoinder, but I think you should ask random people what they feel about the difference between murder and declining to be a parent. I think you've been sitting thinking this to yourself without really debating anyone. As for me, I'm bowing out, thanks for the perspectives so far. Downvotes drain my energy.
    - Robotbeat 5y ago
      The more appropriate analogy would be murder vs forcible sterilization or otherwise preventing/outlawing someone else from having children. No one is asking Omicron to move to Mars. Just asking him (and others) not to prevent others from doing so using threat of law.

ithkuil 5y ago

"I have the moral obligation to kill all the living humans today so I spare the suffering of until generations hereafter"?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

medstrom 5y ago

That's only if you equate the value of life-that-lives-now and life-that-hasn't-been-born-yet. The majority of us value them differently: it's a lot worse to murder than to decline to give birth. Consequently, you can hold the opinion "Don't turn Mars into another biosphere" and nevertheless be against omnicide on Earth.

throwaway316943 5y ago
That’s only if you neglect the fact that reproduction is a continuance of life. Literally a part of each living being renews itself to continue living by reproducing either asexually or sexually. Not reproducing is equivalent to murdering your germ line and extinguishing all of the potential invested in you by your ancestors reaching back millions of years or further if you look beyond your own species. Death is death whether caused by direct action or neglect.
- medstrom 5y ago
  This isn't meant as a rejoinder, but I think you should ask random people what they feel about the difference between murder and declining to be a parent. I think you've been sitting thinking this to yourself without really debating anyone. As for me, I'm bowing out, thanks for the perspectives so far. Downvotes drain my energy.
  - Robotbeat 5y ago
    The more appropriate analogy would be murder vs forcible sterilization or otherwise preventing/outlawing someone else from having children. No one is asking Omicron to move to Mars. Just asking him (and others) not to prevent others from doing so using threat of law.