9 ms·

"Moonwalking with Einstein" by Joshua Foer is an interesting book on the subject of memory athletes. The author is a journalist who sets out to write the book a

"Moonwalking with Einstein" by Joshua Foer is an interesting book on the subject of memory athletes. The author is a journalist who sets out to write the book and in parallel practices alongside his research subjects. In the end, he winds up winning the USA Memory Championship and setting a US record. Really drives home the point that it's all about the techniques and the time one is willing to put into them.

bilal4hmed 5y ago
Highly recommend the book, its a great read.
ftio 5y ago
I read it in 2011 when it came out, and I still have a vague memory of the memory palace he teaches you to build. I used my childhood home to remember: - Garlic in the driveway - Six bottles of wine playing catch with three pairs of socks - A scuba diver in the kitchen sink - A smoke machine in the living room I have no idea what it was that I was supposed to be remembering or whether those are even the right things, but memory palaces are apparently a powerful tool.
- romanhn 5y ago
  It's funny, the memory palace idea always seemed like such an odd concept to me, until I realized I have aphantasia and lack the "normal" visualization capabilities.
  - totetsu 5y ago
    I have heard people who lack strong visualization are still able to get some utility out of it by verbally elaboratively encoding the thing rather than visually encoding it.
    - romanhn 5y ago
      Totally. I did something along those lines as a kid to memorize the first 30 digits of pi. Basically coming up with an elaborate story and committing it to memory.
      - IndySun 5y ago
        >coming up with an elaborate story and committing it to memory I've tried a few of these, including the one in Derren's book. I have to say, none of it worked. Over the course of trying to remember 20 places of pi by various methods, I ended up committing it to memory too, but, and here's the important part, I do not remember them now. I think remembering different things benefit from using different techniques, and we just use the right one unconsciously, there's not a single method you can impose on all memory tasks.
- raffraffraff 5y ago
  The problem I've had with memory palaces is that I find it hard to keep multiple versions of a scene separate from each other. I also find it tedious to come up with the scenes themselves. Mnemonics are the difficult part. Derren Browne explains as way to memorize a deck of playing cards by assigning mnemonics to cards and creating a story with them. I found it somewhat ease. Memorising the cards by themselves is tedious. "Jack of diamonds... wait, no, was it hearts?" There are too many similar cards. So you turn each card into a 100% unique mnemonic using a reversible method. He used a combination of the peg numerical system (1=l, 2=n, 3=m etc) and the first letter of the suit (h=heart, s=spade etc) to come up with a single meme for each card. For picture cards, use characters or people who match up. Queen of hearts might be your wife. King of clubs might be a famous MC or rapper. This gives you 52 items like: Queen Latifa: queen of clubs Ham: 3 of hearts Elon Musk: Jack of diamonds Car: 4 of clubs Dog: 9 of diamonds All you need to do, as you're memorising the order of the deck, is to create a narrative around the individual cards. "Queen Latifa is eating ham with Elon Musk in her car. Her dog is on her lap begging". There's no way you're going to get the cards wrong, or the order. The first time I ever tried it, it took me about 30 minutes to invent or memorise existing card pictures. Once I tried to use it I successfully remembered 25 cards in a row. Surprisingly, I could recite them backwards or name any card that came before or after any card chosen from the deck. Our brains are very good at remembering stories.
- waaaaaaat 5y ago
  same. I remember the bottles of wine, scuba diver and claudia schiffer swimming in cottage cheese or something like that. Socks on the living room couch?
paulpauper 5y ago
it is a great story and probably even a better book, but the sciences is really lacking https://greyenlightenment.com/2018/08/14/bullshitting-with-einstein/ https://greyenlightenment.com/2018/08/14/bullshitting-with-e... There are no peer-reviewed studies that corroborate the claims of the book, and research shows memory champions all have Mensa-level IQs. This is not surprising. Short-term memory is g-loaded and is a component of IQ test (it is called digit span or digit recall), so it is logical to assume that the best at memory would also have high IQs.
- augustk 5y ago
  On the other hand we have the Savant syndrome which is typically not associated with high IQ.
  - Syzygies 5y ago
    That, and I'm glad I didn't read "Mensa-level IQs" while drinking coffee, I would have spit all over my keyboard. Mensa? A low threshold, yet smart enough to be in the game if you can find something that really interests you. But you choose a club? Huh... It's actually heartening that various people famous for their IQs have accomplished zilch in their lives other than being famous for their IQs. This tells you that the test is flawed, and that other factors determine revolutionary levels of success. The magician/mathematician Persi Diaconis long ago explained to me about "memory palaces" and their effectiveness in competition. This can be generalized: The mountaineer Conrad Anker relays how European skiers can spot an American skier from far off: They waste effort. Many people had Michael Jordan's physique, but Michael Jordan spent a decade developing his physique into a world class athlete. One is the architect of one's intelligence. The most poisonous aspect of IQ tests is that people believe them, and conclude that intelligence is innate, not malleable.
    - paulpauper 5y ago
      If you think Mensa people accomplish little, wait until you see the general population
  - 5y ago

bilal4hmed 5y ago

Highly recommend the book, its a great read.

ftio 5y ago

I read it in 2011 when it came out, and I still have a vague memory of the memory palace he teaches you to build. I used my childhood home to remember: - Garlic in the driveway - Six bottles of wine playing catch with three pairs of socks - A scuba diver in the kitchen sink - A smoke machine in the living room I have no idea what it was that I was supposed to be remembering or whether those are even the right things, but memory palaces are apparently a powerful tool.

romanhn 5y ago
It's funny, the memory palace idea always seemed like such an odd concept to me, until I realized I have aphantasia and lack the "normal" visualization capabilities.
- totetsu 5y ago
  I have heard people who lack strong visualization are still able to get some utility out of it by verbally elaboratively encoding the thing rather than visually encoding it.
  - romanhn 5y ago
    Totally. I did something along those lines as a kid to memorize the first 30 digits of pi. Basically coming up with an elaborate story and committing it to memory.
    - IndySun 5y ago
      >coming up with an elaborate story and committing it to memory I've tried a few of these, including the one in Derren's book. I have to say, none of it worked. Over the course of trying to remember 20 places of pi by various methods, I ended up committing it to memory too, but, and here's the important part, I do not remember them now. I think remembering different things benefit from using different techniques, and we just use the right one unconsciously, there's not a single method you can impose on all memory tasks.
raffraffraff 5y ago
The problem I've had with memory palaces is that I find it hard to keep multiple versions of a scene separate from each other. I also find it tedious to come up with the scenes themselves. Mnemonics are the difficult part. Derren Browne explains as way to memorize a deck of playing cards by assigning mnemonics to cards and creating a story with them. I found it somewhat ease. Memorising the cards by themselves is tedious. "Jack of diamonds... wait, no, was it hearts?" There are too many similar cards. So you turn each card into a 100% unique mnemonic using a reversible method. He used a combination of the peg numerical system (1=l, 2=n, 3=m etc) and the first letter of the suit (h=heart, s=spade etc) to come up with a single meme for each card. For picture cards, use characters or people who match up. Queen of hearts might be your wife. King of clubs might be a famous MC or rapper. This gives you 52 items like: Queen Latifa: queen of clubs Ham: 3 of hearts Elon Musk: Jack of diamonds Car: 4 of clubs Dog: 9 of diamonds All you need to do, as you're memorising the order of the deck, is to create a narrative around the individual cards. "Queen Latifa is eating ham with Elon Musk in her car. Her dog is on her lap begging". There's no way you're going to get the cards wrong, or the order. The first time I ever tried it, it took me about 30 minutes to invent or memorise existing card pictures. Once I tried to use it I successfully remembered 25 cards in a row. Surprisingly, I could recite them backwards or name any card that came before or after any card chosen from the deck. Our brains are very good at remembering stories.
waaaaaaat 5y ago
same. I remember the bottles of wine, scuba diver and claudia schiffer swimming in cottage cheese or something like that. Socks on the living room couch?

paulpauper 5y ago

it is a great story and probably even a better book, but the sciences is really lacking https://greyenlightenment.com/2018/08/14/bullshitting-with-einstein/ https://greyenlightenment.com/2018/08/14/bullshitting-with-e... There are no peer-reviewed studies that corroborate the claims of the book, and research shows memory champions all have Mensa-level IQs. This is not surprising. Short-term memory is g-loaded and is a component of IQ test (it is called digit span or digit recall), so it is logical to assume that the best at memory would also have high IQs.

augustk 5y ago
On the other hand we have the Savant syndrome which is typically not associated with high IQ.
- Syzygies 5y ago
  That, and I'm glad I didn't read "Mensa-level IQs" while drinking coffee, I would have spit all over my keyboard. Mensa? A low threshold, yet smart enough to be in the game if you can find something that really interests you. But you choose a club? Huh... It's actually heartening that various people famous for their IQs have accomplished zilch in their lives other than being famous for their IQs. This tells you that the test is flawed, and that other factors determine revolutionary levels of success. The magician/mathematician Persi Diaconis long ago explained to me about "memory palaces" and their effectiveness in competition. This can be generalized: The mountaineer Conrad Anker relays how European skiers can spot an American skier from far off: They waste effort. Many people had Michael Jordan's physique, but Michael Jordan spent a decade developing his physique into a world class athlete. One is the architect of one's intelligence. The most poisonous aspect of IQ tests is that people believe them, and conclude that intelligence is innate, not malleable.
  - paulpauper 5y ago
    If you think Mensa people accomplish little, wait until you see the general population
- 5y ago