6 ms·

Free donuts, now free lottery tickets. Aren’t we past the point of diminishing returns where treating people like stupid fat cattle isn’t going to move the need

Free donuts, now free lottery tickets. Aren’t we past the point of diminishing returns where treating people like stupid fat cattle isn’t going to move the needle any further?

staticautomatic 5y ago
Why would we be past that point?
david422 5y ago
This result of this will be the litmus test to whether we are past that point or not.
chitowneats 5y ago
I think you're underestimating how desperate of a situation some people are in. Offering people money during a historic economic downturn is likely quite effective. It's also completely unethical. Add this to the list of things done in the name of "public health" in the past year that will be seen as barbaric by future generations.
- freeone3000 5y ago
  A stupid waste of money, perhaps, but if we look to the mass vaccination campaigns of the past, even to the earliest ones, they all turned out to be pretty good ideas.
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    It's economic coercion. Frankly, public health officials and the pharmaceutical industry do not deserve our trust about these vaccines. People would be much more confident about taking them under different circumstances. I'll continue to take a wait and see approach. It appears likely the majority of the rest of the country will as well, if current decreased vaccination rates hold steady.
    - Aunche 5y ago
      What is more coercive? The taxpayers subsidizing your ER hospital stay or the state offering an incentive for something that you're free to reject.
      - chitowneats 5y ago
        The only people subsidizing my ER visits are myself and my employer. I'm in my early 30's, in good health, with no comorbidities. The chances I end up in the ER for covid are about as likely as ending up there for a blood clot in my brain. This is my point: people are capable of making a cost/benefit analysis decision on their own. If you want to give them money, just give them money. Don't coerce them into making a healthcare decision that might not be right for them.
        Aunche 5y ago
        I was using the generic form of "you". A good fraction of people who end up in the ER are subsidized by the taxpayers. How is offering someone an incentive to avoid this situation coercion? If you have a well-paying job with good health insurance, you are unlikely to be a burden to the taxpayers and should not feel "coerced" by this lottery.
        chitowneats 5y ago
        Look at it from the perspective of a line cook. The government ends your ability to make a living by enacting unscientific and capricious restrictions around indoor dining. You're now out of work. All you need to do to secure a paycheck is take a couple injections of a drug that is not FDA approved for general use. If anything at all happens to you there's no one to sue because the manufacturers and health care providers have legal immunity. You've been working odd jobs, gig work, etc to try to make ends meet so you've contracted covid a time or two. You know you're immune; or at the very least, not at much risk. But you have a child support payment, and another son living with you. What's the worst thing that could happen taking the shot? It turns out the tail risk is quite high. But like a commenter said above: it's like the reverse lottery. High tail risk, but low risk overall and an immediate reward. Maybe "coercion" is a little hyperbolic. I'll retreat to my earlier characterization of "unethical".
- myko 5y ago
  What's barbaric is the attitude of folks who require an incentive like this to do the right thing and get vaccinated.
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    I disagree that getting vaccinated is the right choice for everyone but I agree that doing it for the money is absolutely the wrong reason.
s5300 5y ago
In my opinion: Not even slightly. I have to make the assumption you've not seen either great desperation nor great stupidity.
srcmap 5y ago
From government prospective, it is probably cheaper than unemployment, continue the lock down and more stimulus checks Curious if it will triggers different kind of "Cobra Effect" - https://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-cobra-effect-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-cobra-effect-a-new-frea... MEHROTRA: So the “cobra effect” refers to a scheme in colonial India where the British governor, or whoever, the person in charge in Delhi, wanted to rid Delhi of cobras. Apparently in his opinion there were too many cobras in Delhi. So he had the bounty placed on cobras. And he expected this would solve the problem. But the population in Delhi, at least some of it, responded by farming cobras. And all of a sudden the administration was getting too many cobra skins. And they decided the scheme wasn’t as smart as initially it appeared and they rescinded the scheme. But by then the cobra farmers had this little population of cobras to deal with. And what do you do if there’s no market? You just release them. And so this significantly, by a few orders of magnitude, worsened the cobra menace in Delhi.
acchow 5y ago
Humans have not evolved beyond incentives.
sofal 5y ago
Do you also think we are past the point where treating people like pathologically gullible buffoons by peddling wild and easily debunkable conspiracy theories in order to get votes could succeed on a national scale?
- cpr 5y ago
  Oh, you mean like Hunter's laptop?
myko 5y ago
I don't think so, especially not in Ohio - a lot of folks (rural especially based on my social feeds) are not planning on getting vaccinated, but I think this actually has a chance of getting them to do it.

Free donuts, now free lottery tickets. Aren’t we past the point of diminishing returns where treating people like stupid fat cattle isn’t going to move the needle any further?

staticautomatic 5y ago

Why would we be past that point?

david422 5y ago

This result of this will be the litmus test to whether we are past that point or not.

chitowneats 5y ago

I think you're underestimating how desperate of a situation some people are in. Offering people money during a historic economic downturn is likely quite effective. It's also completely unethical. Add this to the list of things done in the name of "public health" in the past year that will be seen as barbaric by future generations.

freeone3000 5y ago
A stupid waste of money, perhaps, but if we look to the mass vaccination campaigns of the past, even to the earliest ones, they all turned out to be pretty good ideas.
- chitowneats 5y ago
  It's economic coercion. Frankly, public health officials and the pharmaceutical industry do not deserve our trust about these vaccines. People would be much more confident about taking them under different circumstances. I'll continue to take a wait and see approach. It appears likely the majority of the rest of the country will as well, if current decreased vaccination rates hold steady.
  - Aunche 5y ago
    What is more coercive? The taxpayers subsidizing your ER hospital stay or the state offering an incentive for something that you're free to reject.
    - chitowneats 5y ago
      The only people subsidizing my ER visits are myself and my employer. I'm in my early 30's, in good health, with no comorbidities. The chances I end up in the ER for covid are about as likely as ending up there for a blood clot in my brain. This is my point: people are capable of making a cost/benefit analysis decision on their own. If you want to give them money, just give them money. Don't coerce them into making a healthcare decision that might not be right for them.
      - Aunche 5y ago
        I was using the generic form of "you". A good fraction of people who end up in the ER are subsidized by the taxpayers. How is offering someone an incentive to avoid this situation coercion? If you have a well-paying job with good health insurance, you are unlikely to be a burden to the taxpayers and should not feel "coerced" by this lottery.
        chitowneats 5y ago
        Look at it from the perspective of a line cook. The government ends your ability to make a living by enacting unscientific and capricious restrictions around indoor dining. You're now out of work. All you need to do to secure a paycheck is take a couple injections of a drug that is not FDA approved for general use. If anything at all happens to you there's no one to sue because the manufacturers and health care providers have legal immunity. You've been working odd jobs, gig work, etc to try to make ends meet so you've contracted covid a time or two. You know you're immune; or at the very least, not at much risk. But you have a child support payment, and another son living with you. What's the worst thing that could happen taking the shot? It turns out the tail risk is quite high. But like a commenter said above: it's like the reverse lottery. High tail risk, but low risk overall and an immediate reward. Maybe "coercion" is a little hyperbolic. I'll retreat to my earlier characterization of "unethical".
myko 5y ago
What's barbaric is the attitude of folks who require an incentive like this to do the right thing and get vaccinated.
- chitowneats 5y ago
  I disagree that getting vaccinated is the right choice for everyone but I agree that doing it for the money is absolutely the wrong reason.

s5300 5y ago

In my opinion: Not even slightly. I have to make the assumption you've not seen either great desperation nor great stupidity.

srcmap 5y ago

From government prospective, it is probably cheaper than unemployment, continue the lock down and more stimulus checks Curious if it will triggers different kind of "Cobra Effect" - https://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-cobra-effect-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-cobra-effect-a-new-frea... MEHROTRA: So the “cobra effect” refers to a scheme in colonial India where the British governor, or whoever, the person in charge in Delhi, wanted to rid Delhi of cobras. Apparently in his opinion there were too many cobras in Delhi. So he had the bounty placed on cobras. And he expected this would solve the problem. But the population in Delhi, at least some of it, responded by farming cobras. And all of a sudden the administration was getting too many cobra skins. And they decided the scheme wasn’t as smart as initially it appeared and they rescinded the scheme. But by then the cobra farmers had this little population of cobras to deal with. And what do you do if there’s no market? You just release them. And so this significantly, by a few orders of magnitude, worsened the cobra menace in Delhi.

acchow 5y ago

Humans have not evolved beyond incentives.

sofal 5y ago

Do you also think we are past the point where treating people like pathologically gullible buffoons by peddling wild and easily debunkable conspiracy theories in order to get votes could succeed on a national scale?

cpr 5y ago
Oh, you mean like Hunter's laptop?

myko 5y ago

I don't think so, especially not in Ohio - a lot of folks (rural especially based on my social feeds) are not planning on getting vaccinated, but I think this actually has a chance of getting them to do it.