4 ms·

I'm surprised they don't have a safety check to assure that someone is actually in the driver's seat. I mean my non-Tesla vehicle from 2013 has sensors that ale

I'm surprised they don't have a safety check to assure that someone is actually in the driver's seat. I mean my non-Tesla vehicle from 2013 has sensors that alert if I'm in the driver's seat without a seatbelt. Likewise it has sensors that alert if there are any passengers without a seatbelt. How hard would it be to have such a simple sensor and bring the car to an immediate halt if the driver is removed from the seat?

ajross 5y ago
Replied elsewhere, but repeating here: It's not a security feature! A driver nag (not unique to Tesla at all) is a reminder to a presumptively-good-faith driver who may have lost attention or fallen asleep, etc... Cars are dangerous and almost by definition can be used maliciously to terrifying effect, and we just accept that. You don't expect your Civic to protect the world against you running them over, why demand it from another manufacturer?
- TchoBeer 5y ago
  Actually I would like it if my car stopped me from hitting someone that would be a good feature.
  - ajross 5y ago
    Let me know when cars stop you from deliberately hitting someone. I'd buy that too. Again, the argument above was not that the car should provide assistive technology (collision avoidance is a totally a thing), but that they should prevent a malicious driver from doing anything harmful.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
    Then maybe consider a Volvo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLW4ATtPPKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLW4ATtPPKw (But I'm sure its is being rolled out by other manufacturers) EDIT: But then again, its a Volvo :-P (It's not like they are considered a "hip" manufacturer)
- mitchdoogle 5y ago
  Because they can do it and because its currently illegal to operate without a person in the drivers seat. Most cars it's never been a worry because the vehicle would crash immediately when someone moved to the back seat, so if someone attempted this they had a death wish anyway. Now, we are in a transition phase where cars aren't fully self driving but they have features they take some control over which gives people a false sense of confidence, and Tesla is the worst offender here. If there is a feature that reliably prevents a Civic from striking a person, you can bet it should be included on every new vehicle. Look at rear view cameras - rarely seen 10 years ago and they are now required by law on new cars in the US because they have proven to greatly enhance the safety of pedestrians. The legislation hasn't caught up with the tech here - it will soon enough.
  - ajross 5y ago
    > Look at rear view cameras [...] have proven to greatly enhance the safety of pedestrians. Which is sort of the point I think you're missing: the driver nag doesn't seem to enhance safety much at all. In fact I don't think we have a single known accident (now that everyone seems to be backing off from assumptions about that Texas crash) where someone defeated a Tesla driver nag and got into a crash a human driver would have prevented. Everyone should agree that we should demand proven safety features be implemented broadly. The problem is that people seem to be arguing the converse: that because Tesla has this feature, it must mean that autopilot is UNsafe. And that just doesn't seem to be the case.
- squeaky-clean 5y ago
  A 2021 Civic actually will brake by itself in certain circumstances. And I'm pretty sure no Civic can drive itself. From https://owners.honda.com/vehicles/information/2021/Civic-Sedan/features/Collision-Mitigation-Braking-System/3/collision-mitigation-braking-system-cmbs-pdf https://owners.honda.com/vehicles/information/2021/Civic-Sed... The system starts monitoring the roadway ahead when your vehicle speed is about 3 mph (5 km/h) and there is a vehicle in front of you. The CMBSTM activates when: The speed difference between your vehicle and a vehicle or pedestrian detected in front of you becomes about 3 mph (5 km/h) and over with a chance of a collision. Your vehicle speed is about 62 mph (100 km/h) or less and the system determines there is a chance of a collision with: - Vehicles detected in front of you that are stationary, oncoming, or traveling in your same direction. - A pedestrian who is detected in front of you. Your vehicle speed is above 62 mph (100 km/h), and the system determines there is a chance of a collision with a vehicle detected in front of you traveling in your same direction.
kwhitefoot 5y ago
Disconnecting the seat belt disables cruise control and autosteer in my 2015 Model S 70D. The car then comes to a controlled stop with the hazard warning lights flashing.
wongarsu 5y ago
The typical setup of seatbelt sensor and weight sensor would be easy to defeat by clipping in the seatbelt (or one of those "alarm stoppers" [1]) and putting something heavy on the driver's seat. Tesla forces you to apply force to the steering wheel, but apparently he did that with his feet. I'm not sure what else Tesla could do without having too many false-positives. 1: https://www.amazon.com/seat-belt-buckle-alarm-stopper/s?k=seat+belt+buckle+alarm+stopper https://www.amazon.com/seat-belt-buckle-alarm-stopper/s?k=se...

ajross 5y ago

Replied elsewhere, but repeating here: It's not a security feature! A driver nag (not unique to Tesla at all) is a reminder to a presumptively-good-faith driver who may have lost attention or fallen asleep, etc... Cars are dangerous and almost by definition can be used maliciously to terrifying effect, and we just accept that. You don't expect your Civic to protect the world against you running them over, why demand it from another manufacturer?

TchoBeer 5y ago
Actually I would like it if my car stopped me from hitting someone that would be a good feature.
- ajross 5y ago
  Let me know when cars stop you from deliberately hitting someone. I'd buy that too. Again, the argument above was not that the car should provide assistive technology (collision avoidance is a totally a thing), but that they should prevent a malicious driver from doing anything harmful.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
  Then maybe consider a Volvo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLW4ATtPPKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLW4ATtPPKw (But I'm sure its is being rolled out by other manufacturers) EDIT: But then again, its a Volvo :-P (It's not like they are considered a "hip" manufacturer)
mitchdoogle 5y ago
Because they can do it and because its currently illegal to operate without a person in the drivers seat. Most cars it's never been a worry because the vehicle would crash immediately when someone moved to the back seat, so if someone attempted this they had a death wish anyway. Now, we are in a transition phase where cars aren't fully self driving but they have features they take some control over which gives people a false sense of confidence, and Tesla is the worst offender here. If there is a feature that reliably prevents a Civic from striking a person, you can bet it should be included on every new vehicle. Look at rear view cameras - rarely seen 10 years ago and they are now required by law on new cars in the US because they have proven to greatly enhance the safety of pedestrians. The legislation hasn't caught up with the tech here - it will soon enough.
- ajross 5y ago
  > Look at rear view cameras [...] have proven to greatly enhance the safety of pedestrians. Which is sort of the point I think you're missing: the driver nag doesn't seem to enhance safety much at all. In fact I don't think we have a single known accident (now that everyone seems to be backing off from assumptions about that Texas crash) where someone defeated a Tesla driver nag and got into a crash a human driver would have prevented. Everyone should agree that we should demand proven safety features be implemented broadly. The problem is that people seem to be arguing the converse: that because Tesla has this feature, it must mean that autopilot is UNsafe. And that just doesn't seem to be the case.
squeaky-clean 5y ago
A 2021 Civic actually will brake by itself in certain circumstances. And I'm pretty sure no Civic can drive itself. From https://owners.honda.com/vehicles/information/2021/Civic-Sedan/features/Collision-Mitigation-Braking-System/3/collision-mitigation-braking-system-cmbs-pdf https://owners.honda.com/vehicles/information/2021/Civic-Sed... The system starts monitoring the roadway ahead when your vehicle speed is about 3 mph (5 km/h) and there is a vehicle in front of you. The CMBSTM activates when: The speed difference between your vehicle and a vehicle or pedestrian detected in front of you becomes about 3 mph (5 km/h) and over with a chance of a collision. Your vehicle speed is about 62 mph (100 km/h) or less and the system determines there is a chance of a collision with: - Vehicles detected in front of you that are stationary, oncoming, or traveling in your same direction. - A pedestrian who is detected in front of you. Your vehicle speed is above 62 mph (100 km/h), and the system determines there is a chance of a collision with a vehicle detected in front of you traveling in your same direction.

kwhitefoot 5y ago

Disconnecting the seat belt disables cruise control and autosteer in my 2015 Model S 70D. The car then comes to a controlled stop with the hazard warning lights flashing.

wongarsu 5y ago

The typical setup of seatbelt sensor and weight sensor would be easy to defeat by clipping in the seatbelt (or one of those "alarm stoppers" [1]) and putting something heavy on the driver's seat. Tesla forces you to apply force to the steering wheel, but apparently he did that with his feet. I'm not sure what else Tesla could do without having too many false-positives. 1: https://www.amazon.com/seat-belt-buckle-alarm-stopper/s?k=seat+belt+buckle+alarm+stopper https://www.amazon.com/seat-belt-buckle-alarm-stopper/s?k=se...