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> The real news here is the crumbling facade of neutrality and trust that the Swiss have for a while now been allowing to crumble and run right through their fi

> The real news here is the crumbling facade of neutrality and trust that the Swiss have for a while now been allowing to crumble and run right through their fingers. What else except the Crypto AG case is there? And if it is just Crypto AG it seems folish to assume that a company is good just because it originated in a certain country. But Switzerland still seems like a fairly easy country to deal with.

kodah 5y ago
Rather than rehash all this here, there are a lot of posts about ProtonMail and the foundational claims they make about being a company operated out of Switzerland. I'd suggest reading those critiques. The process of becoming a surveillance state is a slow one, you don't just wake up with government operated/connected cameras on every corner. Apparently rehashing is what we want to do. Here's some links: Switzerland's laws are the foundation of ProtonMail: https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ ProtonMail must comply with Swiss law, regardless of what people think, and as Switzerland progressively becomes surveillance state it will have to comply more: https://www.securityweek.com/protonmail-accused-voluntarily- https://www.securityweek.com/protonmail-accused-voluntarily-... This post on Reddit sums up, fairly well, what I usually hear from privacy interested users of ProtonMail: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/49u8vy/protonma https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/49u8vy/protonma... For some more direct points: https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ While it may not be immediately obvious, if you follow each of these points they connect back to compliance in some way
- soziawa 5y ago
  > Rather than rehash all this here, there are a lot of posts about ProtonMail and the foundational claims they make about being a company operated out of Switzerland. I'd suggest reading those critiques. Looking at the top ten posts on HN about ProtonMail does not give any such articles or top comments. So at least a link would be nice. > The process of becoming a surveillance state is a slow one, you don't just wake up with government operated/connected cameras on every corner. Can you give any indication that this is more of an issue in Switzerland compared to other countries? This is very vague and looks like it is more of a critique of ProtonMail instead of Switzerland as a whole.
  - kodah 5y ago
    I'm a paying ProtonMail user, so no, not really a critique of ProtonMail. Switzerland's laws are the foundation of ProtonMail: https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ ProtonMail must comply with Swiss law, regardless of what people think, and as Switzerland progressively becomes surveillance state it will have to comply more: https://www.securityweek.com/protonmail-accused-voluntarily-helping-police-spy-users https://www.securityweek.com/protonmail-accused-voluntarily-... This post on Reddit sums up, fairly well, what I usually hear from privacy interested users of ProtonMail: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/49u8vy/protonmail_concerns/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/49u8vy/protonma... For some more direct points: https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ While it may not be immediately obvious, if you follow each of these points they connect back to compliance in some way.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  I would need more credible evidence. For example, > https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ Skimming through it, it displays a lot of ignorance which undermines its credibility for me, and the credibility of the other evidence. As examples, these statements seem to lack understanding of the technology: > Protonmail even has an SSL cert for that onion address even though it’s completely unnecessary. > Leaked documents at Wikileaks show that the CIA requires emails to be stored as an EML filetype. There are several ways to store emails, and Protonmail has selected the format that the CIA requires. > Subject and metadata encryption are not difficult to provide.
dillondoyle 5y ago
Banking secrecy

kodah 5y ago

Rather than rehash all this here, there are a lot of posts about ProtonMail and the foundational claims they make about being a company operated out of Switzerland. I'd suggest reading those critiques. The process of becoming a surveillance state is a slow one, you don't just wake up with government operated/connected cameras on every corner. Apparently rehashing is what we want to do. Here's some links: Switzerland's laws are the foundation of ProtonMail: https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ ProtonMail must comply with Swiss law, regardless of what people think, and as Switzerland progressively becomes surveillance state it will have to comply more: https://www.securityweek.com/protonmail-accused-voluntarily- https://www.securityweek.com/protonmail-accused-voluntarily-... This post on Reddit sums up, fairly well, what I usually hear from privacy interested users of ProtonMail: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/49u8vy/protonma https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/49u8vy/protonma... For some more direct points: https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ While it may not be immediately obvious, if you follow each of these points they connect back to compliance in some way

soziawa 5y ago
> Rather than rehash all this here, there are a lot of posts about ProtonMail and the foundational claims they make about being a company operated out of Switzerland. I'd suggest reading those critiques. Looking at the top ten posts on HN about ProtonMail does not give any such articles or top comments. So at least a link would be nice. > The process of becoming a surveillance state is a slow one, you don't just wake up with government operated/connected cameras on every corner. Can you give any indication that this is more of an issue in Switzerland compared to other countries? This is very vague and looks like it is more of a critique of ProtonMail instead of Switzerland as a whole.
- kodah 5y ago
  I'm a paying ProtonMail user, so no, not really a critique of ProtonMail. Switzerland's laws are the foundation of ProtonMail: https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ https://protonmail.com/blog/switzerland/ ProtonMail must comply with Swiss law, regardless of what people think, and as Switzerland progressively becomes surveillance state it will have to comply more: https://www.securityweek.com/protonmail-accused-voluntarily-helping-police-spy-users https://www.securityweek.com/protonmail-accused-voluntarily-... This post on Reddit sums up, fairly well, what I usually hear from privacy interested users of ProtonMail: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/49u8vy/protonmail_concerns/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/49u8vy/protonma... For some more direct points: https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ While it may not be immediately obvious, if you follow each of these points they connect back to compliance in some way.
wolverine876 5y ago
I would need more credible evidence. For example, > https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ https://privacy-watchdog.io/truth-about-protonmail/ Skimming through it, it displays a lot of ignorance which undermines its credibility for me, and the credibility of the other evidence. As examples, these statements seem to lack understanding of the technology: > Protonmail even has an SSL cert for that onion address even though it’s completely unnecessary. > Leaked documents at Wikileaks show that the CIA requires emails to be stored as an EML filetype. There are several ways to store emails, and Protonmail has selected the format that the CIA requires. > Subject and metadata encryption are not difficult to provide.

dillondoyle 5y ago

Banking secrecy