3 ms·

So, when are the correction articles coming from all the mainstream news sites and blogs (gawker)

by NikolaeVarius 5y ago

detaro 5y ago
Correcting what?
- topspin 5y ago
  I don't know. Maybe it's related to the thing that's confusing me. I thought I had learned that this shouldn't be possible; that Tesla vehicles won't 'autopilot' without a person in the driver's seat. This story and those claims can't both be simultaneously true unless this case involved some defeat device to allow autopilot without a driver. The claim that autopilot can't operate without someone in the drivers seat was a key point made by Tesla advocates (including the media ones) attempting to debunk the narrative around a recent crash that killed two people while they were supposedly in the back seat.
  - detaro 5y ago
    see e.g.: https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/cr-engineers-show-tesla-will-drive-with-no-one-in-drivers-seat/ https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/cr-engine... it tries to detect a person, but that's relatively easily tricked.
    - topspin 5y ago
      So there isn't even something as simple minded as a pressure sensor in the seat to detect a body... a commonplace component with air bag systems. Or it isn't tied into the interlock. If so that is inexcusable.
      - kwhitefoot 5y ago
        It has sensors in the seat and it uses that to tell you that a seat belt should be buckled up. I don't think any other car does more than that but Tesla's do disengage auto steer and cruise control if the seat belt becomes detached and brings the car to a controlled stop with hazard flashers on. I would not want it to immediately disengage auto steer just because a wriggled in my seat though. I do think Tesla could do better but I see no reason why they should be censured for failing to prevent deliberate attempts to circumvent the checks. That would mean that they would have to engage in an arms race against ever more inventive people trying to defeat the system.
        topspin 5y ago
        The arms race ends the second someone puts a sandbag in the seat to defeat a pressure sensor; at that point Tesla is off the hook. Without that function Tesla is culpable my mind. Argument #1 from Tesla defenders was 'fake news! you can't do that.' Well you can, in fact, and when a civil jury hears how a simple safety function that is entirely commonplace among other car manufacturers is missing from Tesla my point will be vindicated with a massive award for the plaintiffs, no matter how many downmods I collect for my prediction.
        kwhitefoot 5y ago
        Which car uses the seat sensor to disable the car? Are there any that do anything other than enable or disable airbags?

So, when are the correction articles coming from all the mainstream news sites and blogs (gawker)

detaro 5y ago

Correcting what?

topspin 5y ago
I don't know. Maybe it's related to the thing that's confusing me. I thought I had learned that this shouldn't be possible; that Tesla vehicles won't 'autopilot' without a person in the driver's seat. This story and those claims can't both be simultaneously true unless this case involved some defeat device to allow autopilot without a driver. The claim that autopilot can't operate without someone in the drivers seat was a key point made by Tesla advocates (including the media ones) attempting to debunk the narrative around a recent crash that killed two people while they were supposedly in the back seat.
- detaro 5y ago
  see e.g.: https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/cr-engineers-show-tesla-will-drive-with-no-one-in-drivers-seat/ https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/cr-engine... it tries to detect a person, but that's relatively easily tricked.
  - topspin 5y ago
    So there isn't even something as simple minded as a pressure sensor in the seat to detect a body... a commonplace component with air bag systems. Or it isn't tied into the interlock. If so that is inexcusable.
    - kwhitefoot 5y ago
      It has sensors in the seat and it uses that to tell you that a seat belt should be buckled up. I don't think any other car does more than that but Tesla's do disengage auto steer and cruise control if the seat belt becomes detached and brings the car to a controlled stop with hazard flashers on. I would not want it to immediately disengage auto steer just because a wriggled in my seat though. I do think Tesla could do better but I see no reason why they should be censured for failing to prevent deliberate attempts to circumvent the checks. That would mean that they would have to engage in an arms race against ever more inventive people trying to defeat the system.
      - topspin 5y ago
        The arms race ends the second someone puts a sandbag in the seat to defeat a pressure sensor; at that point Tesla is off the hook. Without that function Tesla is culpable my mind. Argument #1 from Tesla defenders was 'fake news! you can't do that.' Well you can, in fact, and when a civil jury hears how a simple safety function that is entirely commonplace among other car manufacturers is missing from Tesla my point will be vindicated with a massive award for the plaintiffs, no matter how many downmods I collect for my prediction.
        kwhitefoot 5y ago
        Which car uses the seat sensor to disable the car? Are there any that do anything other than enable or disable airbags?