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This isn't an honest person that has somehow been mislead about his car's capabilities. In fact, he was recently caught doing the same thing just a few weeks ag

This isn't an honest person that has somehow been mislead about his car's capabilities. In fact, he was recently caught doing the same thing just a few weeks ago, but wasn't arrested after he was caught in that incident. It turns out that Param Sharma has a long history of committing crimes for attention. He sold a stolen iPhone back in 2014 in order to get attention on Instagram: https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/instagrams-richest-and-most-hated-teenager-param-sharma-lands-in-jail-for-selling-a-stolen-iphone-on-craigslist-713500.html https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/instagrams-richest-and-most...

xkjkls 5y ago
Tesla's advertising and claims of self-driving encourage this kind of behavior. Elon himself tweeted joking approval of the couple who uploaded themselves having sex in the back of a Tesla. It's hard to act like these sort of things are just independent actors.
- maxharris 5y ago
  How do you explain that he was focused on iPhones in 2014? Was that somehow Apple's fault, too? I suspect - but cannot prove - that he might have something to do with a stock manipulation scheme, targeting companies with high public profiles. If you read the article, he has a rich father. This is intriguing enough to justify further investigation. EDIT: apparently this is happening now https://www.thefocus.news/celebrity/param-sharma-parents/ https://www.thefocus.news/celebrity/param-sharma-parents/
SigmundA 5y ago
Whatever he's doing seems to be pretty easy, any word on how he's defeating the safety checks?
- jaywalk 5y ago
  The picture in the article shows him touching the steering wheel with his shoeless foot, so I'm guessing that's the key.
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    My car can tell when someone is sitting in the seat and ding an alarm when they’re not buckled in or turn on the appropriate passenger airbag(s). Surely a Tesla has this same capability?
    - jaywalk 5y ago
      Putting a sufficiently heavy object on the seat will take care of that.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Apparently foot on the steering wheel from the photo.
- jsight 5y ago
  There is very little that can be done to stop someone who is intentionally trying to violate safety checks. Sadly, the folks who try to ultimately make things worse for all of us.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - SigmundA 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_in_depth_(non-military) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_in_depth_(non-military... If its just a steering wheel check then all he needs to do is put his foot on the wheel, which looks like what he did. If it had a weight sensor in seat then he would also need a heavy enough weight. If there is also an attention tracking camera then that has to be fooled as well. No system is perfect it also doesn't mean more couldn't be done, the more friction you add the less people will do it, especially just casual offenders who just jump in the back seat and use a foot to try it out. How much should be done is an open debate, I am just trying to find out what a Tesla currently does.
    - detaro 5y ago
      report on some tests about this: https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/cr-engineers-show-tesla-will-drive-with-no-one-in-drivers-seat/ https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/cr-engine...
    - jsight 5y ago
      The problem is that this overthinks the problem. There are basically three classes of people in play here: - The jokesters that manipulate the vehicle with a foot or something. There are very few of these in general, as there really isn't a benefit to the operator. - The sleepers - These seem to be happening too often with Teslas. It seems like face/head tracking could fix it. - The movie watchers - These can trivially defeat both the eye tracking style approaches and the possibly a camera based approach as well. - The unfocused, tired, or otherwise slightly distracted. This is by far the biggest group. To maximize safety, these things need to focus on shaping behavior, not on stopping determined and willfully dangerous adversaries.
- swiley 5y ago
  Last time I checked it's not hard to get a root shell on a Tesla.
  - kwhitefoot 5y ago
    Details?
- gnarbarian 5y ago
  what is stopping you from turning off the road and intentionally hitting pedestrians?
  - SigmundA 5y ago
    Not the question...
    - marrs 5y ago
      Actually it is. Risk management has to be proportionate to the risk.
      - SigmundA 5y ago
        I asked what driver checks the Tesla has and you are making what point? It seems based on other actual answers to my question there is only a steering wheel check. Are you proposing there should be no checks and it's purely the drivers responsibility therefore my question should not be answered directly instead this should be a debate about risk management? Please clarify how the GP answered my question and what I missed.
        gnarbarian 5y ago
        You have no authority to limit the scope of this discussion. Willfully determined actions such as tricking the system and getting in the back seat is reckless driving and is the drivers fault and responsibility. Just like intentionally putting a rock on the gas pedal and jumping into the back seat. Or intentionally driving over pedestrians. It's the person wielding the tool not the tool's fault.
        SigmundA 5y ago
        I am the one who asked the question and your response did not answer it. I am still not sure what your point is, are you saying Tesla should have no steering wheel check either? Can I get a clear response instead of argumentative rambling?
- hermitdev 5y ago
  I'm surprised they don't have a safety check to assure that someone is actually in the driver's seat. I mean my non-Tesla vehicle from 2013 has sensors that alert if I'm in the driver's seat without a seatbelt. Likewise it has sensors that alert if there are any passengers without a seatbelt. How hard would it be to have such a simple sensor and bring the car to an immediate halt if the driver is removed from the seat?
  - ajross 5y ago
    Replied elsewhere, but repeating here: It's not a security feature! A driver nag (not unique to Tesla at all) is a reminder to a presumptively-good-faith driver who may have lost attention or fallen asleep, etc... Cars are dangerous and almost by definition can be used maliciously to terrifying effect, and we just accept that. You don't expect your Civic to protect the world against you running them over, why demand it from another manufacturer?
    - TchoBeer 5y ago
      Actually I would like it if my car stopped me from hitting someone that would be a good feature.
      - ajross 5y ago
        Let me know when cars stop you from deliberately hitting someone. I'd buy that too. Again, the argument above was not that the car should provide assistive technology (collision avoidance is a totally a thing), but that they should prevent a malicious driver from doing anything harmful.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
        Then maybe consider a Volvo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLW4ATtPPKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLW4ATtPPKw (But I'm sure its is being rolled out by other manufacturers) EDIT: But then again, its a Volvo :-P (It's not like they are considered a "hip" manufacturer)
- bitexploder 5y ago
  I used rubber bands and a water bottle. The general motion of the autopilot moves the bottle enough to trick it. Of course my hands were a millimeter from the wheel the whole time and it was just for my own amusement... my wife refuses to even try Autopilot. I only used it to see how it works. Some people love it, but I don't trust it, or at least myself with it. Tesla adaptive cruise is very good and does enough to reduce driving fatigue for me. AutoPilot has made far to many sketchy decisions in the short time I used it for me to trust it, Tesla statistics about its safety or not.
ghaff 5y ago
I had to read the part about this being the second time twice when I first saw the story because it seemed so unbelievable. So he does this stupid and dangerous thing and and for reasons he somehow doesn't get arrested the first time. So what to do? Try it again. ADDED: And oh. Then goes on to state publicly and in print that he's going to keep doing it. It does look as if he can get his licenses suspended for all of 30 days. The funny (not ha-ha) thing is that it also looks like he could be thrown in jail longer for disobeying the police officer (6 months) than the actual crime (90 days). Not the sharpest tool in the shed. Attention-seeking on Instagram may not be the worst thing at the moment but it's still a pox.
- fxtentacle 5y ago
  It seems like he got what he wanted, though. Attention is on him.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > The funny (not ha-ha) thing is that it also looks like he could be thrown in jail longer for disobeying the police officer (6 months) than the actual crime (90 days). Disobeying the police officer is an actual crime, and clearly (in law) the more significant one.

xkjkls 5y ago

Tesla's advertising and claims of self-driving encourage this kind of behavior. Elon himself tweeted joking approval of the couple who uploaded themselves having sex in the back of a Tesla. It's hard to act like these sort of things are just independent actors.

maxharris 5y ago
How do you explain that he was focused on iPhones in 2014? Was that somehow Apple's fault, too? I suspect - but cannot prove - that he might have something to do with a stock manipulation scheme, targeting companies with high public profiles. If you read the article, he has a rich father. This is intriguing enough to justify further investigation. EDIT: apparently this is happening now https://www.thefocus.news/celebrity/param-sharma-parents/ https://www.thefocus.news/celebrity/param-sharma-parents/

SigmundA 5y ago

Whatever he's doing seems to be pretty easy, any word on how he's defeating the safety checks?

jaywalk 5y ago
The picture in the article shows him touching the steering wheel with his shoeless foot, so I'm guessing that's the key.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  My car can tell when someone is sitting in the seat and ding an alarm when they’re not buckled in or turn on the appropriate passenger airbag(s). Surely a Tesla has this same capability?
  - jaywalk 5y ago
    Putting a sufficiently heavy object on the seat will take care of that.
ghaff 5y ago
Apparently foot on the steering wheel from the photo.
jsight 5y ago
There is very little that can be done to stop someone who is intentionally trying to violate safety checks. Sadly, the folks who try to ultimately make things worse for all of us.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- SigmundA 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_in_depth_(non-military) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_in_depth_(non-military... If its just a steering wheel check then all he needs to do is put his foot on the wheel, which looks like what he did. If it had a weight sensor in seat then he would also need a heavy enough weight. If there is also an attention tracking camera then that has to be fooled as well. No system is perfect it also doesn't mean more couldn't be done, the more friction you add the less people will do it, especially just casual offenders who just jump in the back seat and use a foot to try it out. How much should be done is an open debate, I am just trying to find out what a Tesla currently does.
  - detaro 5y ago
    report on some tests about this: https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/cr-engineers-show-tesla-will-drive-with-no-one-in-drivers-seat/ https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/cr-engine...
  - jsight 5y ago
    The problem is that this overthinks the problem. There are basically three classes of people in play here: - The jokesters that manipulate the vehicle with a foot or something. There are very few of these in general, as there really isn't a benefit to the operator. - The sleepers - These seem to be happening too often with Teslas. It seems like face/head tracking could fix it. - The movie watchers - These can trivially defeat both the eye tracking style approaches and the possibly a camera based approach as well. - The unfocused, tired, or otherwise slightly distracted. This is by far the biggest group. To maximize safety, these things need to focus on shaping behavior, not on stopping determined and willfully dangerous adversaries.
swiley 5y ago
Last time I checked it's not hard to get a root shell on a Tesla.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  Details?
gnarbarian 5y ago
what is stopping you from turning off the road and intentionally hitting pedestrians?
- SigmundA 5y ago
  Not the question...
  - marrs 5y ago
    Actually it is. Risk management has to be proportionate to the risk.
    - SigmundA 5y ago
      I asked what driver checks the Tesla has and you are making what point? It seems based on other actual answers to my question there is only a steering wheel check. Are you proposing there should be no checks and it's purely the drivers responsibility therefore my question should not be answered directly instead this should be a debate about risk management? Please clarify how the GP answered my question and what I missed.
      - gnarbarian 5y ago
        You have no authority to limit the scope of this discussion. Willfully determined actions such as tricking the system and getting in the back seat is reckless driving and is the drivers fault and responsibility. Just like intentionally putting a rock on the gas pedal and jumping into the back seat. Or intentionally driving over pedestrians. It's the person wielding the tool not the tool's fault.
        SigmundA 5y ago
        I am the one who asked the question and your response did not answer it. I am still not sure what your point is, are you saying Tesla should have no steering wheel check either? Can I get a clear response instead of argumentative rambling?
hermitdev 5y ago
I'm surprised they don't have a safety check to assure that someone is actually in the driver's seat. I mean my non-Tesla vehicle from 2013 has sensors that alert if I'm in the driver's seat without a seatbelt. Likewise it has sensors that alert if there are any passengers without a seatbelt. How hard would it be to have such a simple sensor and bring the car to an immediate halt if the driver is removed from the seat?
- ajross 5y ago
  Replied elsewhere, but repeating here: It's not a security feature! A driver nag (not unique to Tesla at all) is a reminder to a presumptively-good-faith driver who may have lost attention or fallen asleep, etc... Cars are dangerous and almost by definition can be used maliciously to terrifying effect, and we just accept that. You don't expect your Civic to protect the world against you running them over, why demand it from another manufacturer?
  - TchoBeer 5y ago
    Actually I would like it if my car stopped me from hitting someone that would be a good feature.
    - ajross 5y ago
      Let me know when cars stop you from deliberately hitting someone. I'd buy that too. Again, the argument above was not that the car should provide assistive technology (collision avoidance is a totally a thing), but that they should prevent a malicious driver from doing anything harmful.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
      Then maybe consider a Volvo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLW4ATtPPKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLW4ATtPPKw (But I'm sure its is being rolled out by other manufacturers) EDIT: But then again, its a Volvo :-P (It's not like they are considered a "hip" manufacturer)
bitexploder 5y ago
I used rubber bands and a water bottle. The general motion of the autopilot moves the bottle enough to trick it. Of course my hands were a millimeter from the wheel the whole time and it was just for my own amusement... my wife refuses to even try Autopilot. I only used it to see how it works. Some people love it, but I don't trust it, or at least myself with it. Tesla adaptive cruise is very good and does enough to reduce driving fatigue for me. AutoPilot has made far to many sketchy decisions in the short time I used it for me to trust it, Tesla statistics about its safety or not.

ghaff 5y ago

I had to read the part about this being the second time twice when I first saw the story because it seemed so unbelievable. So he does this stupid and dangerous thing and and for reasons he somehow doesn't get arrested the first time. So what to do? Try it again. ADDED: And oh. Then goes on to state publicly and in print that he's going to keep doing it. It does look as if he can get his licenses suspended for all of 30 days. The funny (not ha-ha) thing is that it also looks like he could be thrown in jail longer for disobeying the police officer (6 months) than the actual crime (90 days). Not the sharpest tool in the shed. Attention-seeking on Instagram may not be the worst thing at the moment but it's still a pox.

fxtentacle 5y ago
It seems like he got what he wanted, though. Attention is on him.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> The funny (not ha-ha) thing is that it also looks like he could be thrown in jail longer for disobeying the police officer (6 months) than the actual crime (90 days). Disobeying the police officer is an actual crime, and clearly (in law) the more significant one.