5 ms·

>You will never get a promotion or raise if there's no formal performance review process and career ladder. That is total BS. I had promotion multiple times ju

by hansor 5y ago

>You will never get a promotion or raise if there's no formal performance review process and career ladder. That is total BS. I had promotion multiple times just because business owner liked me and valued my work. >You have to be performing at the next level for several months Total BS too. Maybe in India. > VISIBILITY This one is not BS! I have seen many many developers without any rise - just because they do not attend any meetings, they look like bumps(no suits!), and those who do not talk much with their own boss or boss above... When I manage to do something BIG - i make sure that my boss, his boss, and boss above KNOWS that we tried hard and delivered. It's not a shame to brag about real accomplishments :) In that way I received 32% pay-rise in past 2 years.

deeblering4 5y ago
Some people are happy taking a 32% pay cut in exchange for not needing to wear a suit or attend pointless meetings. The behavior you describe sounds like that of a good team lead/manager. Praising their team members for their efforts and drawing attention to successes and progress. It's a solid path for advancement up the corporate ladder, but it's not for everyone.
Clubber 5y ago
>That is total BS. I had promotion multiple times just because business owner liked me and valued my work. Yes, I would say in my experience that in an environment that utilizes formal performance reviews, I was less likely to get a promotion. When it's a small company that is making money, and you wow your boss and make yourself invaluable, you get promotions / raises. It really boils down to busting your ass to get things done and letting the powers that be know it.
elliottcarlson 5y ago
> Total BS too. Maybe in India. That was unnecessary -- this is something that is indeed an expectation in _some_ career ladders -- it's not a global truth, but nothing is. While the author made generalized claims and absolutes, so did you to the contrary - when the reality is always "it depends on who you are, and who you report to". Claiming total BS is probably more harmful in this case.
jerf 5y ago
Keep in mind the high degree of variance we're all going to experience due to the fact that there's a lot of variance in the field and in general most of us have held a small number of jobs. Those of us who have held enough jobs to have even an anecdotally-significant sample arguably weren't around long enough in any one place to get a solid sense of how their promotions worked! There's plenty of places that hand out promotions as rewards for being good at your current job. There's plenty of places that require to you to have been doing some percentage of the promotion already. There's plenty of places that just never promote you. Heck, in different times and places, the same company can end up doing all of the above. Calling bullshit on any one of those because you've never experienced them is not sound.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
KevinAiken 5y ago
>You have to be performing at the next level for several months I worked at a slow pace large US tech company and this was an absolutely critical part of being promoted, which could only happen during the one or two promotion cycles a year. For a bit of context, this was a place where the best of the best during good years (so not the last year) may get promoted from a junior engineer to an engineer II in 2 years, so climbing was pretty slow.
- Taylor_OD 5y ago
  Yup. In larger companies, and honestly in most start ups I've worked in as well, I always said expect something you "deserve" to come a quarter or two quarters after you've "earned" it. Frustrated that you havnt been promoted even though you have had all the conversations about getting promoted, your boss agrees you should be, and you consistently perform at that level? Give it 3-6 months and it will probably happen. The machine moves slowly.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    "expect something you "deserve" to come a quarter or two quarters after you've "earned" it." ... if you get it at all. You don't earn anything. Pay and promotions are unilaterally controlled by management. They decide who to award promotions or raises to. If it were truly earned, there would be an unambiguous or non subjective set of standards that would definitively say that you deserve, and will recieve, a promotion or raise. "Frustrated that you havnt been promoted even though you have had all the conversations about getting promoted, your boss agrees you should be, and you consistently perform at that level? Give it 3-6 months and it will probably happen." I met the same criteria you listed for 2 years. It never came. Now I'm 3 years beyond that and am still a midlevel since I had to switch stacks twice.
philjohn 5y ago
Both my current, and previous employer (US tech firms) practise trailing promotions.
giantg2 5y ago
">You have to be performing at the next level for several months Total BS too. Maybe in India." This is not BS. My company in the US expects you to be performing at the next level before promoting you. Where do you work? I work at a company that is regarded as doing the right thing and having good intentions, yet they will make you work for up to years in a role above your own before promoting you. I did this for at least a year before getting promoted to midlevel. Then I performed the role of senior dev and then tech lead for a year each and still did not get promoted. (They started to talk about it, but wanted me to take a 13% increase in hours for a 7% raise - that's not a real promotion in my book) I would say the list the OP posted is not great. It might be generally applicable, but every company is so different that it doesn't really matter. Even in the same company with a standardized process, promotions can vary greatly from manager to manager. I hate visibility. I do begrudgingly agree that it's necessary to get promoted in most companies. I really think that talent identification and rewards should be handled by the managers. Having people toot their own horn can take away from the team spirit between members and even create a perverse motive for what work/tasks people are willing to do. I've seen terrible tech leads that only for to where they did because they were yes men and would take credit for putting out fires - fires that were a result of their own shortsighted designs. But hey, I guess that's why I'm still a shitty midlevel dev that's only seen a 30% (22% inflation adjusted) pay increase over 9 years and doesn't even make $100k.
- hansor 5y ago
  >I hate visibility. >I'm still a shitty midlevel dev that's only seen a 30% (22% inflation adjusted) pay increase over 9 years and doesn't even make $100k. My advice: 1. Buy cheapest black or dark blue suit, buy few cheapest white shirts, buy cheapest leather shoes. You can do it under 120$ - and it will be best investment in your life. 2. BRAG when you do amazing stuff. Managers WILL notice if you CC them in email or talk about it in public. No need to "steal" success from anyone from your team - honestly brag about stuff that you personally made! You can for example send email at 9 PM to your team, boss and HIS boss such us: HI! I'm glad to announce that FEATURE XYZ IS WORKING, I will further test it in night, but it seems that its ready for production. WE MADE IT :) Otherwise your BOSS and HIS BOSS will never know that you are amazing! You need to show them that you are doing fantastic work - otherwise, they might be too busy to notice.
Manishearth 5y ago
> Total BS too. Maybe in India. This has been the case at both my current and previous (American tech) jobs. And it's pretty racist to assume that a person is working or has worked in India just because they have an Indian name.
- lmz 5y ago
  17% of humans, disregarding the name, live in India. I'm sure the percentage of people with Indian names that live in India is larger.
hansor 5y ago
Ohh sh*t. Sorry if i offended anyone by "Maybe in India"! What I meant is that there are some sane companies where promotion or rise is more about motivation, and its not driven by "up or out" mentality that you can see in Accenture and similar companies exploiting their workers in poor countries.

by hansor 5y ago

deeblering4 5y ago

Some people are happy taking a 32% pay cut in exchange for not needing to wear a suit or attend pointless meetings. The behavior you describe sounds like that of a good team lead/manager. Praising their team members for their efforts and drawing attention to successes and progress. It's a solid path for advancement up the corporate ladder, but it's not for everyone.

Clubber 5y ago

>That is total BS. I had promotion multiple times just because business owner liked me and valued my work. Yes, I would say in my experience that in an environment that utilizes formal performance reviews, I was less likely to get a promotion. When it's a small company that is making money, and you wow your boss and make yourself invaluable, you get promotions / raises. It really boils down to busting your ass to get things done and letting the powers that be know it.

elliottcarlson 5y ago

> Total BS too. Maybe in India. That was unnecessary -- this is something that is indeed an expectation in _some_ career ladders -- it's not a global truth, but nothing is. While the author made generalized claims and absolutes, so did you to the contrary - when the reality is always "it depends on who you are, and who you report to". Claiming total BS is probably more harmful in this case.

jerf 5y ago

Keep in mind the high degree of variance we're all going to experience due to the fact that there's a lot of variance in the field and in general most of us have held a small number of jobs. Those of us who have held enough jobs to have even an anecdotally-significant sample arguably weren't around long enough in any one place to get a solid sense of how their promotions worked! There's plenty of places that hand out promotions as rewards for being good at your current job. There's plenty of places that require to you to have been doing some percentage of the promotion already. There's plenty of places that just never promote you. Heck, in different times and places, the same company can end up doing all of the above. Calling bullshit on any one of those because you've never experienced them is not sound.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

KevinAiken 5y ago

>You have to be performing at the next level for several months I worked at a slow pace large US tech company and this was an absolutely critical part of being promoted, which could only happen during the one or two promotion cycles a year. For a bit of context, this was a place where the best of the best during good years (so not the last year) may get promoted from a junior engineer to an engineer II in 2 years, so climbing was pretty slow.

Taylor_OD 5y ago
Yup. In larger companies, and honestly in most start ups I've worked in as well, I always said expect something you "deserve" to come a quarter or two quarters after you've "earned" it. Frustrated that you havnt been promoted even though you have had all the conversations about getting promoted, your boss agrees you should be, and you consistently perform at that level? Give it 3-6 months and it will probably happen. The machine moves slowly.
- giantg2 5y ago
  "expect something you "deserve" to come a quarter or two quarters after you've "earned" it." ... if you get it at all. You don't earn anything. Pay and promotions are unilaterally controlled by management. They decide who to award promotions or raises to. If it were truly earned, there would be an unambiguous or non subjective set of standards that would definitively say that you deserve, and will recieve, a promotion or raise. "Frustrated that you havnt been promoted even though you have had all the conversations about getting promoted, your boss agrees you should be, and you consistently perform at that level? Give it 3-6 months and it will probably happen." I met the same criteria you listed for 2 years. It never came. Now I'm 3 years beyond that and am still a midlevel since I had to switch stacks twice.

philjohn 5y ago

Both my current, and previous employer (US tech firms) practise trailing promotions.

giantg2 5y ago

">You have to be performing at the next level for several months Total BS too. Maybe in India." This is not BS. My company in the US expects you to be performing at the next level before promoting you. Where do you work? I work at a company that is regarded as doing the right thing and having good intentions, yet they will make you work for up to years in a role above your own before promoting you. I did this for at least a year before getting promoted to midlevel. Then I performed the role of senior dev and then tech lead for a year each and still did not get promoted. (They started to talk about it, but wanted me to take a 13% increase in hours for a 7% raise - that's not a real promotion in my book) I would say the list the OP posted is not great. It might be generally applicable, but every company is so different that it doesn't really matter. Even in the same company with a standardized process, promotions can vary greatly from manager to manager. I hate visibility. I do begrudgingly agree that it's necessary to get promoted in most companies. I really think that talent identification and rewards should be handled by the managers. Having people toot their own horn can take away from the team spirit between members and even create a perverse motive for what work/tasks people are willing to do. I've seen terrible tech leads that only for to where they did because they were yes men and would take credit for putting out fires - fires that were a result of their own shortsighted designs. But hey, I guess that's why I'm still a shitty midlevel dev that's only seen a 30% (22% inflation adjusted) pay increase over 9 years and doesn't even make $100k.

hansor 5y ago
>I hate visibility. >I'm still a shitty midlevel dev that's only seen a 30% (22% inflation adjusted) pay increase over 9 years and doesn't even make $100k. My advice: 1. Buy cheapest black or dark blue suit, buy few cheapest white shirts, buy cheapest leather shoes. You can do it under 120$ - and it will be best investment in your life. 2. BRAG when you do amazing stuff. Managers WILL notice if you CC them in email or talk about it in public. No need to "steal" success from anyone from your team - honestly brag about stuff that you personally made! You can for example send email at 9 PM to your team, boss and HIS boss such us: HI! I'm glad to announce that FEATURE XYZ IS WORKING, I will further test it in night, but it seems that its ready for production. WE MADE IT :) Otherwise your BOSS and HIS BOSS will never know that you are amazing! You need to show them that you are doing fantastic work - otherwise, they might be too busy to notice.

Manishearth 5y ago

> Total BS too. Maybe in India. This has been the case at both my current and previous (American tech) jobs. And it's pretty racist to assume that a person is working or has worked in India just because they have an Indian name.

lmz 5y ago
17% of humans, disregarding the name, live in India. I'm sure the percentage of people with Indian names that live in India is larger.

hansor 5y ago

Ohh sh*t. Sorry if i offended anyone by "Maybe in India"! What I meant is that there are some sane companies where promotion or rise is more about motivation, and its not driven by "up or out" mentality that you can see in Accenture and similar companies exploiting their workers in poor countries.