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The majority of italians rate the independence of courts to be poor, which is among the lowest ratings in the EU [1] [1] https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/f

The majority of italians rate the independence of courts to be poor, which is among the lowest ratings in the EU [1] [1] https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/justice_scoreboard_2017_en.pdf https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/justice_scoreboar...

riffraff 5y ago
this is because they think the courts are politicized, not because the judiciary takes input from the government. In fact there has been a constant conflict between judges and government for the last 30 years.
- anoncake 5y ago
  Doesn't that mean the judiciary is independent, but biased?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - riffraff 5y ago
    It's hard to say, certainly some investigations have appeared political, but in US terms there is distrust against "public attorneys" rather than against judges (and Italy permits one to change career between the two). But what I meant to say is that one political side have complained about judges for 30 years, which has impacted the public opinion. See the effects Trump has had on institutional trust in the US, and make it last 5 mandates.
  - toyg 5y ago
    Kinda. The judicial branch is rigorously separated from the other two, but it self-organises in a way that often replicates the ideological groups emerging in regular politics (they have their own little parliament, basically). When the postwar political equilibrium crumbled under the weight of its own corruption and Berlusconi got in power, effectively altering the ideological landscape, the judiciary “class” did not immediately follow, since most of them saw the guy as a dodgy felon (which was technically correct); and things have been a bit hairy ever since.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
It would be good to see objective metrics, like how much conviction depends on wealth, etc
unobtaniumstool 5y ago
Italy also ranks between Grenada and Saudi Arabia in terms of corruption. https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/ita https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/ita
carlob 5y ago
Probably due to Berlusconi and Salvini trying to escape their legal troubles by calling the judges communists.

riffraff 5y ago

this is because they think the courts are politicized, not because the judiciary takes input from the government. In fact there has been a constant conflict between judges and government for the last 30 years.

anoncake 5y ago
Doesn't that mean the judiciary is independent, but biased?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- riffraff 5y ago
  It's hard to say, certainly some investigations have appeared political, but in US terms there is distrust against "public attorneys" rather than against judges (and Italy permits one to change career between the two). But what I meant to say is that one political side have complained about judges for 30 years, which has impacted the public opinion. See the effects Trump has had on institutional trust in the US, and make it last 5 mandates.
- toyg 5y ago
  Kinda. The judicial branch is rigorously separated from the other two, but it self-organises in a way that often replicates the ideological groups emerging in regular politics (they have their own little parliament, basically). When the postwar political equilibrium crumbled under the weight of its own corruption and Berlusconi got in power, effectively altering the ideological landscape, the judiciary “class” did not immediately follow, since most of them saw the guy as a dodgy felon (which was technically correct); and things have been a bit hairy ever since.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

It would be good to see objective metrics, like how much conviction depends on wealth, etc

unobtaniumstool 5y ago

Italy also ranks between Grenada and Saudi Arabia in terms of corruption. https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/ita https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/ita

carlob 5y ago

Probably due to Berlusconi and Salvini trying to escape their legal troubles by calling the judges communists.