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Why is this guy not in jail? This is blatantly manipulating cryptos almost every other week.

iso1210 5y ago
These markets are being manipulated by big money all the time. Musk just makes it more obvious how pathetic the system always has been.
vanviegen 5y ago
Is there anything legally wrong with manipulating crypto courses? Or even ethically? The supposed main advantage of cryptos is that they are independent of governments and institutions, and their rules. And in this case, that's exactly what they get. And besides that, without 'manipulation' (which I'd say includes any kind of marketing), cryptos would inherently be worth exactly nothing.
bboygravity 5y ago
For the exact same reasons that Jim Cramer is not in jail, CNBC staff is not in jail, Marketwatch staff is not in jail, Motley fool staff is not in jail, Ken Griffin is not in jail, etc etc. For the same reasons the people who tried to short and manipulate Tesla (and GameStop) into bankruptcy for gains didn't go to jail. Also for the same reasons market makers and hedge funds like Citadel can still exist while blatantly manipulating the market every second of every day and deliberately shorting healthy companies into bankruptcy for gains. All of the above parties are doing way way way worse than Musk in broad daylight. All Musk does is arguably pump and dump. The above parties pump and dump and are constantly wash trading, influencing/buying the SEC, buying media (CNBC "Tesla is almost bankrupt, sell now", etc) for pump and dumps, pump & dumping on Twitter (Cramer), naked shorting illegally, messing with order executions, HFT DDoS attacks on exchanges for profit and so on and so forth. All at the attractive cost of meaningless tiny fines (assuming they get fined at all) and 0 jail time. Yes. The US financial markets are completely rotten. Ironically, I feel that the crypto markets are much fairer. At least you can buy a real token directly and sell that real token for money on an exchange of your chosing. At least it's clear that Musk is pumping and dumping (as opposed to Jim Cramer on CNBC, who does exactly the same for hedge funds under the veil of "trustworthy media"). As a comparison: ever tried to get your hands on stock certificates for stock you own? Good luck with that. Can you point me to a broker where you can directly own a share? You can't. They don't exist. Can you point me to a broker that doesn't lend out the shares which YOU "own" to hedge funds? I know of some in Europe, but they are very rare. Can you point me to a broker that allows you to route your orders to the exchange of your choice? I can only name 1: IBKR. The vast majority of brokers get paid to route your orders to the exchange that is worst for you and best for whoever is paying off your broker. And then there's "cheap" brokers who offer "payment for order flow" where traders essentially pay a "trade fee" to whoever is paying for order flow (to give you worse execution than themselves). I could go on and on and on. PS: to be sure, I don't mean to turn this into whataboutism and to argue that Musk's pump & dumps are ethically OK because others are doing worse. The point I'm trying to make is that the US markets are essentially rigged and unfair. And claiming that Musk should be in jail for pump-n-dumping is fine, but then many others should be jail too. Preferably for longer and with way higher priority.

These markets are being manipulated by big money all the time. Musk just makes it more obvious how pathetic the system always has been.

vanviegen 5y ago

Is there anything legally wrong with manipulating crypto courses? Or even ethically? The supposed main advantage of cryptos is that they are independent of governments and institutions, and their rules. And in this case, that's exactly what they get. And besides that, without 'manipulation' (which I'd say includes any kind of marketing), cryptos would inherently be worth exactly nothing.

bboygravity 5y ago

For the exact same reasons that Jim Cramer is not in jail, CNBC staff is not in jail, Marketwatch staff is not in jail, Motley fool staff is not in jail, Ken Griffin is not in jail, etc etc. For the same reasons the people who tried to short and manipulate Tesla (and GameStop) into bankruptcy for gains didn't go to jail. Also for the same reasons market makers and hedge funds like Citadel can still exist while blatantly manipulating the market every second of every day and deliberately shorting healthy companies into bankruptcy for gains. All of the above parties are doing way way way worse than Musk in broad daylight. All Musk does is arguably pump and dump. The above parties pump and dump and are constantly wash trading, influencing/buying the SEC, buying media (CNBC "Tesla is almost bankrupt, sell now", etc) for pump and dumps, pump & dumping on Twitter (Cramer), naked shorting illegally, messing with order executions, HFT DDoS attacks on exchanges for profit and so on and so forth. All at the attractive cost of meaningless tiny fines (assuming they get fined at all) and 0 jail time. Yes. The US financial markets are completely rotten. Ironically, I feel that the crypto markets are much fairer. At least you can buy a real token directly and sell that real token for money on an exchange of your chosing. At least it's clear that Musk is pumping and dumping (as opposed to Jim Cramer on CNBC, who does exactly the same for hedge funds under the veil of "trustworthy media"). As a comparison: ever tried to get your hands on stock certificates for stock you own? Good luck with that. Can you point me to a broker where you can directly own a share? You can't. They don't exist. Can you point me to a broker that doesn't lend out the shares which YOU "own" to hedge funds? I know of some in Europe, but they are very rare. Can you point me to a broker that allows you to route your orders to the exchange of your choice? I can only name 1: IBKR. The vast majority of brokers get paid to route your orders to the exchange that is worst for you and best for whoever is paying off your broker. And then there's "cheap" brokers who offer "payment for order flow" where traders essentially pay a "trade fee" to whoever is paying for order flow (to give you worse execution than themselves). I could go on and on and on. PS: to be sure, I don't mean to turn this into whataboutism and to argue that Musk's pump & dumps are ethically OK because others are doing worse. The point I'm trying to make is that the US markets are essentially rigged and unfair. And claiming that Musk should be in jail for pump-n-dumping is fine, but then many others should be jail too. Preferably for longer and with way higher priority.