5 ms·

It's almost like the government's around the world are waking up to the fact they can actually push back on the ultra mega corps of the world. Or they're seein

by waheoo 5y ago

It's almost like the government's around the world are waking up to the fact they can actually push back on the ultra mega corps of the world. Or they're seeing weakness in the US and taking their geopolitical shots.

f6v 5y ago
Or they are waking up to the fact they can just grab some cash.
gverrilla 5y ago
this is just pretending and games. it's a novel around something in the periphery, when the center is very stable and established
- oblio 5y ago
  What does your comment mean, in less poetic form?
  - gverrilla 5y ago
    I'm sorry but I can't express myself in a "less poetic form", because this space is not suitable for in-depth conversation and also because I don't have enough domain over the language. There's a book I can recommend though: Society of the Spectacle, Guy Debord, 1967.
    - sbr464 5y ago
      I rather liked and prefer your poetic form.
    - oblio 5y ago
      Writing concise yet non cryptic messages is both an art and a skill. Might be worth practicing.
      - gverrilla 5y ago
        Everything is cryptic before we understand it. When we talk for instance about Google, governments, fines, power balance, etc, we're refering at least to an immense superposition of complex systems, or perhaps you could say an hypercomplexity, or perhaps totality may be the best word depending on your perspective. In that context, my cryptic poetics only constitute an heuristic which has the intent to provoke thought, because I do not wish to abandon the totality point of view, and that would be impossible otherwise in a space like this where concision is the rule. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say - although it took me 20 minutes to write this short reply, I'm still not confident it will adequately communicate what I'm thinking or purvey the apropriate "emotionality", which is rather cultural in essence.
        jamescostian 5y ago
        I'd like to help you see how to write more concise messages. Here's how I'd rewrite your entire message: "This is a very complex subject matter, and I don't know how to express my thoughts on it concisely. I don't want to get downvoted for my long-windedness." It's less than a 1/5 of characters, but conveys just as much of the on-topic and non-meta parts of your response.
        oblio 5y ago
        Yeah, but then he wouldn't get to feel smart and make fun of me :-)
        gverrilla 5y ago
        Making fun of you?
        gverrilla 5y ago
        Is this a joke?
        jamescostian 5y ago
  - spoonjim 5y ago
    If I can take a stab at it, it means that these $100 million fines are minor blips around an unchallenged central belief, held by all powerful stakeholders, that corporations should basically be allowed to exert tremendous power over markets and individuals. Essentially, the "Overton Window" for how to deal with something like Google is narrow -- fine them a hundred million or a billion -- instead of wide where possible solutions include shutting Google down, turning it into a citizens-owned co-op where every citizen in the country sits on its board, or other seemingly "outlandish" ideas.
baybal2 5y ago
People, it's good point actually. In a recent article on a new lobbying group trying to onshore chip production https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27121586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27121586 a lot of people pointed out it's this weakness incentivising lobbying. In other words US establishment invites regulatory capture through expectation of lobbying action creating even bigger opportunities to draw a dire picture, and demand more state intervention favourable to the industry. More lobbying & pushback > industry situation worsens > opportunity to draw a dire situation > favourable intervention & more handouts > repeat The poorer they do, they bigger are the handouts.
- Animats 5y ago
  Right. That's called "lemon socialism". Britain, in its most socialist period, the 1950s, had the government owning the railroads, the coal industry, and the steel industry. All lemons, and all way overstaffed.
frockington1 5y ago
Google is probably a bigger economic unit than Italy at this point. Much of Europe has yet to recover economically since the 2000 market crash and Italy is worse off than most. I doubt its taking geopolitical shots and more trying to find any source of revenue they can
- bjohnson225 5y ago
  > more trying to find any source of revenue they can €100M would be about 0.0000125% of the revenue Italy expects in 2021. It's totally irrelevant to the national budget.

by waheoo 5y ago

f6v 5y ago

Or they are waking up to the fact they can just grab some cash.

gverrilla 5y ago

this is just pretending and games. it's a novel around something in the periphery, when the center is very stable and established

oblio 5y ago
What does your comment mean, in less poetic form?
- gverrilla 5y ago
  I'm sorry but I can't express myself in a "less poetic form", because this space is not suitable for in-depth conversation and also because I don't have enough domain over the language. There's a book I can recommend though: Society of the Spectacle, Guy Debord, 1967.
  - sbr464 5y ago
    I rather liked and prefer your poetic form.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Writing concise yet non cryptic messages is both an art and a skill. Might be worth practicing.
    - gverrilla 5y ago
      Everything is cryptic before we understand it. When we talk for instance about Google, governments, fines, power balance, etc, we're refering at least to an immense superposition of complex systems, or perhaps you could say an hypercomplexity, or perhaps totality may be the best word depending on your perspective. In that context, my cryptic poetics only constitute an heuristic which has the intent to provoke thought, because I do not wish to abandon the totality point of view, and that would be impossible otherwise in a space like this where concision is the rule. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say - although it took me 20 minutes to write this short reply, I'm still not confident it will adequately communicate what I'm thinking or purvey the apropriate "emotionality", which is rather cultural in essence.
      - jamescostian 5y ago
        I'd like to help you see how to write more concise messages. Here's how I'd rewrite your entire message: "This is a very complex subject matter, and I don't know how to express my thoughts on it concisely. I don't want to get downvoted for my long-windedness." It's less than a 1/5 of characters, but conveys just as much of the on-topic and non-meta parts of your response.
        oblio 5y ago
        Yeah, but then he wouldn't get to feel smart and make fun of me :-)
        gverrilla 5y ago
        Making fun of you?
        gverrilla 5y ago
        Is this a joke?
        jamescostian 5y ago
- spoonjim 5y ago
  If I can take a stab at it, it means that these $100 million fines are minor blips around an unchallenged central belief, held by all powerful stakeholders, that corporations should basically be allowed to exert tremendous power over markets and individuals. Essentially, the "Overton Window" for how to deal with something like Google is narrow -- fine them a hundred million or a billion -- instead of wide where possible solutions include shutting Google down, turning it into a citizens-owned co-op where every citizen in the country sits on its board, or other seemingly "outlandish" ideas.

baybal2 5y ago

People, it's good point actually. In a recent article on a new lobbying group trying to onshore chip production https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27121586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27121586 a lot of people pointed out it's this weakness incentivising lobbying. In other words US establishment invites regulatory capture through expectation of lobbying action creating even bigger opportunities to draw a dire picture, and demand more state intervention favourable to the industry. More lobbying & pushback > industry situation worsens > opportunity to draw a dire situation > favourable intervention & more handouts > repeat The poorer they do, they bigger are the handouts.

Animats 5y ago
Right. That's called "lemon socialism". Britain, in its most socialist period, the 1950s, had the government owning the railroads, the coal industry, and the steel industry. All lemons, and all way overstaffed.

frockington1 5y ago

Google is probably a bigger economic unit than Italy at this point. Much of Europe has yet to recover economically since the 2000 market crash and Italy is worse off than most. I doubt its taking geopolitical shots and more trying to find any source of revenue they can

bjohnson225 5y ago
> more trying to find any source of revenue they can €100M would be about 0.0000125% of the revenue Italy expects in 2021. It's totally irrelevant to the national budget.