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Can someone create a Dutch-shell-companies-as-as-service (DSCaaS), generate and submit all legal documents automatically, and help normal citizens dodge the sam

by dheera 6y ago

Can someone create a Dutch-shell-companies-as-as-service (DSCaaS), generate and submit all legal documents automatically, and help normal citizens dodge the same amount of taxes?

IdontRememberIt 6y ago
Forget it. Tax offices are chasing the big fishes so they have all the tools to catch and bother the small inexperienced ones. Also running these structure is actually very expensive and complex. Normal citizen have only 2 possibilities: cash economy or move to place fiscally more adapted to their needs (each country favor a type of fiscal profil).
ev1 6y ago
I was actually offered this as a service by a company doing formations in the Seychelles (they were spamming people) - quite literally had a spammer tell me "no, don't buy my product, it isn't worth it" They basically said the cost of company formation (doesn't really matter where, but anywhere that matters, like Panama or Seychelles or BVI or Macau or etc), mail handling monthly payments, virtual office payments, legal and accountant time, etc exceeds more than 99% of peoples' actual tax payment. That includes people making 500k. And that there is virtually no point in doing so. Doubly more if you are US based due to reporting requirements and massive additional costs for that. IANAL, but based on what I've been told you are not able to easily do this if you are employed by a normal company - it requires that you hold a company in the first place to have intellectual property, branding to be able to licence cross-shell [easiest compared to trying to shuffle physical items of value around], etc, and that the company gets the payment, so people making 500k FAANG salaries are out as they are FTE employed. And that your cost of finding the 'correct' accountant that has experience in this will far exceed your previous accountant cost.
varenc 6y ago
I suspect there's a large fixed cost to arrange this so it doesn't make sense for most people. Though maybe there's way to make it cheaper! Also with inheritance tax in the US, your estate isn't taxed unless it's worth more than $11.18 million [0]. So doesn't matter for most people. It's estimated only %0.2 of estates pay the tax. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_State...
- dheera 6y ago
  I suppose a lot of the fixed costs are lawyers charging $1000/hour to fill in some blanks on some Word templates? Maybe an entrepreneur just needs to make that a web form. Fill in details and generate the same form for $10 instead of $1000. And then some robots to print, seal up, and mail the envelopes and we're done. I should be able to spin up a Dutch shell company like an EC2 instance. Maybe have "AWS" regions for Cayman and other places too and a Python API to spin up shell companies in arbitrary locales.
  - the_local_host 6y ago
    Each pod in a Kubernetes cluster should register itself as a separate LLC and declare bankruptcy on shutdown. Free cloud deployments!
- ALittleLight 6y ago
  Could there be one Dutch Shell Company Company and individuals could enter into a contract with it to pass their wealth through to avoid taxes?
cigaser 6y ago
Not without leaving US and maybe renouncing citizenship. But it is pretty simple to do. I live in EU and pay about 10% from $100k+ salary.

by dheera 6y ago

Can someone create a Dutch-shell-companies-as-as-service (DSCaaS), generate and submit all legal documents automatically, and help normal citizens dodge the same amount of taxes?

IdontRememberIt 6y ago

Forget it. Tax offices are chasing the big fishes so they have all the tools to catch and bother the small inexperienced ones. Also running these structure is actually very expensive and complex. Normal citizen have only 2 possibilities: cash economy or move to place fiscally more adapted to their needs (each country favor a type of fiscal profil).

ev1 6y ago

I was actually offered this as a service by a company doing formations in the Seychelles (they were spamming people) - quite literally had a spammer tell me "no, don't buy my product, it isn't worth it" They basically said the cost of company formation (doesn't really matter where, but anywhere that matters, like Panama or Seychelles or BVI or Macau or etc), mail handling monthly payments, virtual office payments, legal and accountant time, etc exceeds more than 99% of peoples' actual tax payment. That includes people making 500k. And that there is virtually no point in doing so. Doubly more if you are US based due to reporting requirements and massive additional costs for that. IANAL, but based on what I've been told you are not able to easily do this if you are employed by a normal company - it requires that you hold a company in the first place to have intellectual property, branding to be able to licence cross-shell [easiest compared to trying to shuffle physical items of value around], etc, and that the company gets the payment, so people making 500k FAANG salaries are out as they are FTE employed. And that your cost of finding the 'correct' accountant that has experience in this will far exceed your previous accountant cost.

varenc 6y ago

I suspect there's a large fixed cost to arrange this so it doesn't make sense for most people. Though maybe there's way to make it cheaper! Also with inheritance tax in the US, your estate isn't taxed unless it's worth more than $11.18 million [0]. So doesn't matter for most people. It's estimated only %0.2 of estates pay the tax. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_State...

dheera 6y ago
I suppose a lot of the fixed costs are lawyers charging $1000/hour to fill in some blanks on some Word templates? Maybe an entrepreneur just needs to make that a web form. Fill in details and generate the same form for $10 instead of $1000. And then some robots to print, seal up, and mail the envelopes and we're done. I should be able to spin up a Dutch shell company like an EC2 instance. Maybe have "AWS" regions for Cayman and other places too and a Python API to spin up shell companies in arbitrary locales.
- the_local_host 6y ago
  Each pod in a Kubernetes cluster should register itself as a separate LLC and declare bankruptcy on shutdown. Free cloud deployments!
ALittleLight 6y ago
Could there be one Dutch Shell Company Company and individuals could enter into a contract with it to pass their wealth through to avoid taxes?

cigaser 6y ago

Not without leaving US and maybe renouncing citizenship. But it is pretty simple to do. I live in EU and pay about 10% from $100k+ salary.