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Everyone is going to forget this hump in gas supply and the anxiety it causes among ICE vehicle owners as soon as the next EV article comes up. How much more pr

Everyone is going to forget this hump in gas supply and the anxiety it causes among ICE vehicle owners as soon as the next EV article comes up. How much more proof do you need that the gas supply is easily disrupted (no matter how much you want to attribute this to the snowballing effects of panic buying, the root cause is still a single disruption/point of failure) and not just some logistics that you can take for granted as if they always work without a hitch? I really do think it's going to take a lot of people by surprise when we hit that coming cross-over point where "gas range anxiety" is (again) way higher than "EV range anxiety".

perl4ever 6y ago
I don't know where you live, but I'm used to power outages a lot more than gasoline outages. As evidence that is not just a delusion, I notice that you can buy gas powered electric generators in the stores. Do you see electric powered gasoline generators anywhere? It would certainly be possible in theory.
- dzhiurgis 6y ago
  I don't know where you live, but I've seen less than 10 outages in 35 years of my life and they never lasted more than 1 or 2 hours.
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    I can't remember a longer outage than that offhand, but in ~40 years, I'm sure there have been some. Causes of power outages I can think of that might happen in my area: - wind storm - ice storm - tornado - squirrel got in a transformer - car hit a pole I'm sure there have been more unusual things in several decades, but those are what come to mind. One thing to keep in mind is if you are in a position where only your home lost power, or only your apartment building, you may be a low priority and have to wait longer for the power company than if there are a bunch of customers without power.
- WorldMaker 6y ago
  Your electricity runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, you are in a position to notice power outages much more easily than gasoline "outages". Gasoline supply is hidden behind a logistics dance of shifting prices and for the most part "outages" (really "shortages") usually get swept under the rug of economics and you won't notice them. (Until you do, such as the panic runs we've been seeing in the US South after a single pipeline hiccup.) It's a fun false equivalency, but thanks for trying.
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    >It's a fun false equivalency My comment was about how they are different, not equivalent. You sound angry, but also I don't see any disagreement buried in your negative words.
    - WorldMaker 6y ago
      I don't know how personal attacks help your argument. There's no anger in my comment. Eyerolling, perhaps. If you don't understand how I am disagreeing with you then we are probably done with this conversation.
      - perl4ever 6y ago
        >I don't know how personal attacks help your argument Saying you sound angry isn't a personal attack, nor is it saying you are angry. It's just saying you sound angry and hostile, which led me to genuinely do my best to understand what you were disagreeing about. I couldn't find it. "Sweeping under the rug" appeared to me to be a metaphor with negative connotations, but not a denial of gas being less of an issue. You seemed to be saying "yeah, it's less of an issue, but that's bad".
        WorldMaker 5y ago
        > Saying you sound angry isn't a personal attack, nor is it saying you are angry. Saying I brought emotion to the argument is Tone Policing, which is a form of an ad hominem (personal attack), in that it implies that I shouldn't bring emotion to the discussion, or maybe should have used differently emotional wording "to better support my argument". Rather than arguing the content of my argument it argues the surface of my argument, if not also the substance of my character. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing "Sweeping under the rug" may have a negative connotation sometimes, but the bigger implication/connotation is one of "hidden information". Gas companies want consumers to think that gas gets to pumps like magic and have a lot of vested interests in people not generally questioning gas supply logistics. So they have a lot of ways to "hide" that "dirt" under the rug (of their economics model). As a consumer we have no idea how many gas shortages there are in a given period in any given region because gas companies aren't going to tell us and generally work very hard to make sure that we don't know. Sure from some consumer perspectives it is "less of an issue" because ignorance is bliss, but from the other perspective it is far "more of an issue" in that it is harder to prepare for it. Panics like this snowball precisely because people have no idea a shortage is happening until it feels "too late" and they feel as consumers they have lost control. Electricity outages while inconvenient rarely cause panic in and of themselves, and areas prone to more outages generally have more preparedness for them. At the end of the day it is entirely apples and oranges to compare electricity outages and gas shortages, though. One is a simple, ubiquitous, extremely fungible utility with a wide variety of suppliers and used for a wide variety of applications/appliances/needs and the other an extremely complex, less fungible (a car that needs gas generally can't substitute for diesel and vice versa) supply chain with fewer overall suppliers and for the most part only a single (intended) use. Electricity is used immediately at the time of demand (so outages have a real time effect) and gas has a time shift of several weeks or more between purchase and usage (further blurring the time sensitivity to shortages and adding more reason how short term shortages can easily be hidden).
nicbou 6y ago
I would have far more difficulty securing an electric connection that reaches my car than finding gas. I've been in a great many places that don't even have electricity, but I could always find petrol. Not just in central Europe but in North Africa and central Asia and everywhere in between. Gas supply was tight once elsewhere because of a mild panic. For short instant, refueling was on my mind. With electricity, it's part of every trip you plan. Of course, this vastly depends on how you use your vehicle. If I traveled shorter distance and had a plug at home, electricity would feel much safer.

perl4ever 6y ago

I don't know where you live, but I'm used to power outages a lot more than gasoline outages. As evidence that is not just a delusion, I notice that you can buy gas powered electric generators in the stores. Do you see electric powered gasoline generators anywhere? It would certainly be possible in theory.

dzhiurgis 6y ago
I don't know where you live, but I've seen less than 10 outages in 35 years of my life and they never lasted more than 1 or 2 hours.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  I can't remember a longer outage than that offhand, but in ~40 years, I'm sure there have been some. Causes of power outages I can think of that might happen in my area: - wind storm - ice storm - tornado - squirrel got in a transformer - car hit a pole I'm sure there have been more unusual things in several decades, but those are what come to mind. One thing to keep in mind is if you are in a position where only your home lost power, or only your apartment building, you may be a low priority and have to wait longer for the power company than if there are a bunch of customers without power.
WorldMaker 6y ago
Your electricity runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, you are in a position to notice power outages much more easily than gasoline "outages". Gasoline supply is hidden behind a logistics dance of shifting prices and for the most part "outages" (really "shortages") usually get swept under the rug of economics and you won't notice them. (Until you do, such as the panic runs we've been seeing in the US South after a single pipeline hiccup.) It's a fun false equivalency, but thanks for trying.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  >It's a fun false equivalency My comment was about how they are different, not equivalent. You sound angry, but also I don't see any disagreement buried in your negative words.
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    I don't know how personal attacks help your argument. There's no anger in my comment. Eyerolling, perhaps. If you don't understand how I am disagreeing with you then we are probably done with this conversation.
    - perl4ever 6y ago
      >I don't know how personal attacks help your argument Saying you sound angry isn't a personal attack, nor is it saying you are angry. It's just saying you sound angry and hostile, which led me to genuinely do my best to understand what you were disagreeing about. I couldn't find it. "Sweeping under the rug" appeared to me to be a metaphor with negative connotations, but not a denial of gas being less of an issue. You seemed to be saying "yeah, it's less of an issue, but that's bad".
      - WorldMaker 5y ago
        > Saying you sound angry isn't a personal attack, nor is it saying you are angry. Saying I brought emotion to the argument is Tone Policing, which is a form of an ad hominem (personal attack), in that it implies that I shouldn't bring emotion to the discussion, or maybe should have used differently emotional wording "to better support my argument". Rather than arguing the content of my argument it argues the surface of my argument, if not also the substance of my character. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing "Sweeping under the rug" may have a negative connotation sometimes, but the bigger implication/connotation is one of "hidden information". Gas companies want consumers to think that gas gets to pumps like magic and have a lot of vested interests in people not generally questioning gas supply logistics. So they have a lot of ways to "hide" that "dirt" under the rug (of their economics model). As a consumer we have no idea how many gas shortages there are in a given period in any given region because gas companies aren't going to tell us and generally work very hard to make sure that we don't know. Sure from some consumer perspectives it is "less of an issue" because ignorance is bliss, but from the other perspective it is far "more of an issue" in that it is harder to prepare for it. Panics like this snowball precisely because people have no idea a shortage is happening until it feels "too late" and they feel as consumers they have lost control. Electricity outages while inconvenient rarely cause panic in and of themselves, and areas prone to more outages generally have more preparedness for them. At the end of the day it is entirely apples and oranges to compare electricity outages and gas shortages, though. One is a simple, ubiquitous, extremely fungible utility with a wide variety of suppliers and used for a wide variety of applications/appliances/needs and the other an extremely complex, less fungible (a car that needs gas generally can't substitute for diesel and vice versa) supply chain with fewer overall suppliers and for the most part only a single (intended) use. Electricity is used immediately at the time of demand (so outages have a real time effect) and gas has a time shift of several weeks or more between purchase and usage (further blurring the time sensitivity to shortages and adding more reason how short term shortages can easily be hidden).

nicbou 6y ago

I would have far more difficulty securing an electric connection that reaches my car than finding gas. I've been in a great many places that don't even have electricity, but I could always find petrol. Not just in central Europe but in North Africa and central Asia and everywhere in between. Gas supply was tight once elsewhere because of a mild panic. For short instant, refueling was on my mind. With electricity, it's part of every trip you plan. Of course, this vastly depends on how you use your vehicle. If I traveled shorter distance and had a plug at home, electricity would feel much safer.