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> If I ask my Jewish friends, they'll say Palestine is inciting violence. If I ask my Palestinian friends, they'll say Israel is. Inciting violence is a broad

> If I ask my Jewish friends, they'll say Palestine is inciting violence. If I ask my Palestinian friends, they'll say Israel is. Inciting violence is a broad definition. There are two sides at war, each one using what they have at hand to fight the other side, however when we see regular well equipped troops our brain thinks "Army", while when there are random masked citizens with AK47s, we immediately think "Terrorists", also thanks to well crafted western propaganda. As Peter Ustinov said: "terrorism is the war of the poor, war is the terrorism of the rich"; I see two sides battling, but one side just follows orders while the other defends their homes, therefore I am 100% with the Palestinians.

prestigious 6y ago
If you are 100% on any side you are 100% in the wrong.
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  This is very true. Most people think in black or white terms about this conflict when it can't be more complicated and nuanced.
tlear 6y ago
Defending their homes? So you must be on the side of Israeli civilians at whome Hamas is salvo firing rockets. Or if you are on the side of Hamas should Twitter remove all the Iron Dome videos showing interception of rockets deliberately fired at civilians by Hamas?
- guerrilla 6y ago
  > So you must be on the side of Israeli civilians at whome Hamas is salvo firing rockets. I feel like this is similar to a false dichotomy. The GP is pointing out a difference in resources and thus power. It doesn't mean one does not empathize with anyone suffering. That's just not something that follows. Any case of someone who is having their home, workplace and life destroyed is an absolute tragedy. I don't think that distracts from GPs point at all which has to do with power dynamics and the media's presentation of events. > Or if you are on the side of Hamas should Twitter remove all the Iron Dome videos showing interception of rockets deliberately fired at civilians by Hamas? Why would they do this? I don't understand the relevance.
- f6v 6y ago
  > So you must be on the side of Israeli civilians You’re right, civilians should be off limits. But don’t forget that many of those civilians are trained soldiers and could be deployed in a matter of days.
lenkite 6y ago
By your very own logic, one should take 100% the side of Israel. After all daily crude rocket attacks are being done by just one side. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_...
- patmcc 6y ago
  And Israel leveled multiple (3?) apartment buildings in the last few days with targeted airstrikes.
  - TheGuyWhoCodes 6y ago
    That had military targets including rocket depots, as you said targeted and that after doing a roof knock to notify the residents to evacuate. They have a few hours to do so before the building was destroyed, keep in mind that Hamas had offices there and rocket depots. This is not the same as lighting up a fuse to a rocket aimed at dense populated areas.
    - patmcc 6y ago
      Ah, so it's fine to destroy civilian homes if they live near military targets and you give them some warning? Interesting. Do you apply that logic both ways? If Hamas sent a warning to Tel Aviv residents to evacuate because they would be firing rockets, would that satisfy you?
      - TheGuyWhoCodes 6y ago
        Yes it is, if there is a rocket depo in a building in central Gaza. There is a big difference between loss of life and loss of property. I don't know of any military in the history of armed conflict that notify the targets to evacuate, keeping in mind that armed militants and rockets are in that building. Do you think Israel should just let that site continue firing? I don't believe any country would allow that. No, that will not satisfy me because they are shooting for maximum civilian casualties not military targets, what's the purpose of firing into Tel-Aviv, Rishon, Ashkelon, Jerusalem? It's to create terror.
squarefoot 6y ago
Replying to myself as I don't want to start a flamewar in which each side is clearly strongly biased, therefore with zero chances of changing opinion. In a war there are potentially no good people; war makes everyone capable of committing atrocities if there is a higher motivation. During WWII the insurgents in my country did nasty things as well, but the ultimate goal was to fight against the Nazi, which were a greater evil, heavily armed and more numerous. In such a situation you don't think twice but rather throw at the enemy every weapon you have. That's why I don't judge Palestinians if they also do bad things as I'm pretty sure that if they could they would rather hit an armed tank rather than a car with a family inside, but as the Ustinov line says, terrorism is the war of the poor, and they are just fighting with what they have at hand, also with no control on how events are reported. Regarding who started it, there are well known maps that give an idea on who invaded who. Example: https://wikispooks.com/w/images/8/86/Palestinian_land_loss.jpg https://wikispooks.com/w/images/8/86/Palestinian_land_loss.j... This is not the only one, and minor inaccuracies, if any, don't invalidate the trend that is shown there. Feel free to dissect each and every sentence of my post in order to find six lines to hang me Richelieu style, but be aware that the more effort you put in this the more you reveal to be a lot more biased than I am. There won't be any more replies by me on this subject. Now back to technical stuff.

prestigious 6y ago

If you are 100% on any side you are 100% in the wrong.

joelbluminator 6y ago
This is very true. Most people think in black or white terms about this conflict when it can't be more complicated and nuanced.

tlear 6y ago

Defending their homes? So you must be on the side of Israeli civilians at whome Hamas is salvo firing rockets. Or if you are on the side of Hamas should Twitter remove all the Iron Dome videos showing interception of rockets deliberately fired at civilians by Hamas?

guerrilla 6y ago
> So you must be on the side of Israeli civilians at whome Hamas is salvo firing rockets. I feel like this is similar to a false dichotomy. The GP is pointing out a difference in resources and thus power. It doesn't mean one does not empathize with anyone suffering. That's just not something that follows. Any case of someone who is having their home, workplace and life destroyed is an absolute tragedy. I don't think that distracts from GPs point at all which has to do with power dynamics and the media's presentation of events. > Or if you are on the side of Hamas should Twitter remove all the Iron Dome videos showing interception of rockets deliberately fired at civilians by Hamas? Why would they do this? I don't understand the relevance.
f6v 6y ago
> So you must be on the side of Israeli civilians You’re right, civilians should be off limits. But don’t forget that many of those civilians are trained soldiers and could be deployed in a matter of days.

lenkite 6y ago

By your very own logic, one should take 100% the side of Israel. After all daily crude rocket attacks are being done by just one side. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_...

patmcc 6y ago
And Israel leveled multiple (3?) apartment buildings in the last few days with targeted airstrikes.
- TheGuyWhoCodes 6y ago
  That had military targets including rocket depots, as you said targeted and that after doing a roof knock to notify the residents to evacuate. They have a few hours to do so before the building was destroyed, keep in mind that Hamas had offices there and rocket depots. This is not the same as lighting up a fuse to a rocket aimed at dense populated areas.
  - patmcc 6y ago
    Ah, so it's fine to destroy civilian homes if they live near military targets and you give them some warning? Interesting. Do you apply that logic both ways? If Hamas sent a warning to Tel Aviv residents to evacuate because they would be firing rockets, would that satisfy you?
    - TheGuyWhoCodes 6y ago
      Yes it is, if there is a rocket depo in a building in central Gaza. There is a big difference between loss of life and loss of property. I don't know of any military in the history of armed conflict that notify the targets to evacuate, keeping in mind that armed militants and rockets are in that building. Do you think Israel should just let that site continue firing? I don't believe any country would allow that. No, that will not satisfy me because they are shooting for maximum civilian casualties not military targets, what's the purpose of firing into Tel-Aviv, Rishon, Ashkelon, Jerusalem? It's to create terror.

squarefoot 6y ago

Replying to myself as I don't want to start a flamewar in which each side is clearly strongly biased, therefore with zero chances of changing opinion. In a war there are potentially no good people; war makes everyone capable of committing atrocities if there is a higher motivation. During WWII the insurgents in my country did nasty things as well, but the ultimate goal was to fight against the Nazi, which were a greater evil, heavily armed and more numerous. In such a situation you don't think twice but rather throw at the enemy every weapon you have. That's why I don't judge Palestinians if they also do bad things as I'm pretty sure that if they could they would rather hit an armed tank rather than a car with a family inside, but as the Ustinov line says, terrorism is the war of the poor, and they are just fighting with what they have at hand, also with no control on how events are reported. Regarding who started it, there are well known maps that give an idea on who invaded who. Example: https://wikispooks.com/w/images/8/86/Palestinian_land_loss.jpg https://wikispooks.com/w/images/8/86/Palestinian_land_loss.j... This is not the only one, and minor inaccuracies, if any, don't invalidate the trend that is shown there. Feel free to dissect each and every sentence of my post in order to find six lines to hang me Richelieu style, but be aware that the more effort you put in this the more you reveal to be a lot more biased than I am. There won't be any more replies by me on this subject. Now back to technical stuff.