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The Guardian has recently written a series of articles about social media manipulation but it seems to go under the radar because it doesn't affect rich countr

The Guardian has recently written a series of articles about social media manipulation but it seems to go under the radar because it doesn't affect rich countries. This issue is very pernicious and deadly, that's why "glitches" is not enough of an explanation. I think it's worth investingating for inside operations. > https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/apr/13/facebook-azerbaijan-ilham-aliyev https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/apr/13/facebook-... Social media will continue to be important for societies, but the commercial ones failed to the point of being dangerous. We need to decentralize that

nine_k 5y ago
Social media manipulation (a bad, nefarious thing!) is hard to tell apart form social media moderation (a good, virtuous thing!). Moderation is not just about removing illegal content (yes, most countries make certain content illegal, and publishing it, punishable). It's also about removing or de-emphasizing legal but unwanted content, various hooliganism, but also things the public sees as unwholesome, and flags as such. This, of course, also differs from country to country. Israel / Arab conflict is one of the worst in this regard. One half of it will tell you about terrible oppressors who capture land, bring military force, and keep peaceful people under a blockade. And they'd be correct. The other side will tell about terrible oppressors who rain rockets on peaceful cities, engage in acts of terror, and proclaim the need to eradicate the other side. They'd also be right. There is no way to make it peaceful and nice on Twitter when it is not peaceful and nice in the real life, for last like 60 years. There's no way any algorithm would look "fair" to people leaning either side, or even to people not caring enough to take sides. Sorry, this is an intrusion of ugly reality which technical means cannot conceal. In this regard, there's no good, fair, nice, etc solution for Twitter, or any other social media.
- SrslyJosh 5y ago
  > The other side will tell about terrible oppressors who rain rockets on peaceful cities, engage in acts of terror, and proclaim the need to eradicate the other side. They'd also be right. No, they really wouldn't. An occupied people cannot be considered "oppressors"--they are the ones being oppressed. Palestinian casualties over the last few decades are roughly 10x Israeli casualties. Israel is a nuclear-armed state backed by the US government. The Palestinians don't even have a formal military. Trying to put equal blame on the Palestinians is just providing cover for the Israeli's on-going genocide of Palestinians.
  - joelbluminator 5y ago
    The Palestinians are also engaging in attempted genocide of Israelis then if this is how you define genocide.
    - ultrastable 5y ago
      no, they're exercising their legal right to armed struggle against a colonial oppressor.
  - yakubin 5y ago
    > Palestinian casualties over the last few decades are roughly 10x Israeli casualties. That's because Israel is better at defending from attacks by Hamas and also prioritizes the defense higher than Hamas. Saying that one side has fewer casualties, implying that they are "the bad ones", is smoke and mirrors.
    - makomk 5y ago
      When Hamas shoots missiles at Israel, Israelis have bunkers to hide in. When the Israeli military bombs the Gaza Strip, there are no bunkers for the people there to hide in - Israel has made sure of that by blocking imports of concrete and steel so there is literally no way to build them. Blaming this on Hamas not having prioritized defense higher is the foulest, evillest kind of victim blaming.
      - yakubin 5y ago
        Hamas gets missiles and all sort of weapons, but they can't get steel? Magic. Then they place the missile batteries next to hospitals, schools and mosques. That shows their commitment to ~defending Palestinians~ attacking Israelis. Meanwhile we should blame Israel for building effective missile defense systems...
  - doix 5y ago
    > Trying to put equal blame on the Palestinians is just providing cover for the Israeli's on-going genocide of Palestinians. People really like to throw the word genocide around, but I really can't see how it's applicable here. The population has been steadily growing for many many years now[0]. If you consider this genocide, it must be the least effective genocide in recorded history. Considering the huge imbalance of military power, it seems entirely reasonable that if Israel wanted to commit genocide, they could do it. Why waste all this money on targetted air strikes when you could just indiscriminately drop bombs? They say that each Iron Dome counter missle costs ~40k, instead of investing in counter missles, why not just use that to flatten Gazza and the West Bank? There are many statements you can make about Israel and it's treatment of Palestinians, but trying to claim that they are committing genocide seems very disingenuous to me. [0] https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-pale...

nine_k 5y ago

Social media manipulation (a bad, nefarious thing!) is hard to tell apart form social media moderation (a good, virtuous thing!). Moderation is not just about removing illegal content (yes, most countries make certain content illegal, and publishing it, punishable). It's also about removing or de-emphasizing legal but unwanted content, various hooliganism, but also things the public sees as unwholesome, and flags as such. This, of course, also differs from country to country. Israel / Arab conflict is one of the worst in this regard. One half of it will tell you about terrible oppressors who capture land, bring military force, and keep peaceful people under a blockade. And they'd be correct. The other side will tell about terrible oppressors who rain rockets on peaceful cities, engage in acts of terror, and proclaim the need to eradicate the other side. They'd also be right. There is no way to make it peaceful and nice on Twitter when it is not peaceful and nice in the real life, for last like 60 years. There's no way any algorithm would look "fair" to people leaning either side, or even to people not caring enough to take sides. Sorry, this is an intrusion of ugly reality which technical means cannot conceal. In this regard, there's no good, fair, nice, etc solution for Twitter, or any other social media.

SrslyJosh 5y ago
> The other side will tell about terrible oppressors who rain rockets on peaceful cities, engage in acts of terror, and proclaim the need to eradicate the other side. They'd also be right. No, they really wouldn't. An occupied people cannot be considered "oppressors"--they are the ones being oppressed. Palestinian casualties over the last few decades are roughly 10x Israeli casualties. Israel is a nuclear-armed state backed by the US government. The Palestinians don't even have a formal military. Trying to put equal blame on the Palestinians is just providing cover for the Israeli's on-going genocide of Palestinians.
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  The Palestinians are also engaging in attempted genocide of Israelis then if this is how you define genocide.
  - ultrastable 5y ago
    no, they're exercising their legal right to armed struggle against a colonial oppressor.
- yakubin 5y ago
  > Palestinian casualties over the last few decades are roughly 10x Israeli casualties. That's because Israel is better at defending from attacks by Hamas and also prioritizes the defense higher than Hamas. Saying that one side has fewer casualties, implying that they are "the bad ones", is smoke and mirrors.
  - makomk 5y ago
    When Hamas shoots missiles at Israel, Israelis have bunkers to hide in. When the Israeli military bombs the Gaza Strip, there are no bunkers for the people there to hide in - Israel has made sure of that by blocking imports of concrete and steel so there is literally no way to build them. Blaming this on Hamas not having prioritized defense higher is the foulest, evillest kind of victim blaming.
    - yakubin 5y ago
      Hamas gets missiles and all sort of weapons, but they can't get steel? Magic. Then they place the missile batteries next to hospitals, schools and mosques. That shows their commitment to ~defending Palestinians~ attacking Israelis. Meanwhile we should blame Israel for building effective missile defense systems...
- doix 5y ago
  > Trying to put equal blame on the Palestinians is just providing cover for the Israeli's on-going genocide of Palestinians. People really like to throw the word genocide around, but I really can't see how it's applicable here. The population has been steadily growing for many many years now[0]. If you consider this genocide, it must be the least effective genocide in recorded history. Considering the huge imbalance of military power, it seems entirely reasonable that if Israel wanted to commit genocide, they could do it. Why waste all this money on targetted air strikes when you could just indiscriminately drop bombs? They say that each Iron Dome counter missle costs ~40k, instead of investing in counter missles, why not just use that to flatten Gazza and the West Bank? There are many statements you can make about Israel and it's treatment of Palestinians, but trying to claim that they are committing genocide seems very disingenuous to me. [0] https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-pale...