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Texas lawmakers approve bill banning 'meat' & 'beef' on plant-based food labels
- mc32 5y agoI agree with this. Make up your own new word for the new product. Tufu isn't "bean cheese". People don't need "to be fooled" in order to get them to try highly processed plant products. Truth in advertising and all that. If you're selling processed plants or insects, great, market it and label it as such. If it's yummy, people will lap it up.
- mikewhy 5y agoThe literal meaning of tofu is "bean curd".
- mc32 5y agoBut that's not what the English ear hears... and on the other hand, in Chinese Tofu is the reference whereas in English Cheese is the reference object. Moreover, Chinese word creation clobs disconnected words together to make new words. Fire + chicken = Turkey, Fire + Car = Locomotive/Train, Fly + Machine = Aircraft, etc. So this is not out of the ordinary for Chinese word creation.
- elliottkember 5y agoCurd is not cheese
- mikewhy 5y agoTBH I still don't get why cheese is being referenced, I've never heard that comparison. I brought it up because the GP said "tofu is not bean cheese" when that's almost exactly what tofu means.
- jfengel 5y agoCheese is being referenced because it's a natural extension of "You can't call it X if it's not the way we used to do X". If Texas wants to limit the definition of meat, then logically they should be limiting the definition of cheese, milk, and even salt, for that matter. Without that, it looks less like a matter of evenhanded regulatory enforcement or consumer protection, and more like a legislature beholden to a corporation.
- yongjik 5y agoNot sure how curd is called in Chinese, but I think the literal meaning is closer to "rotten beans". https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%85%90 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%85%90 - to rot; to decay; to spoil
- trompetenaccoun 5y agoCurd doesn't traditionally exist in (Han) China, as with most other dairy. There's a word for it now (凝乳) but it's not in any relation to tofu. The "fu" in doufu taken by itself does indeed mean rotten. But characters on their own can have very different meanings compared to when used in combination in words. There isn't necessarily a connection, just like in English the word "rotten" doesn't have anything to do with the number 10 that's contained in it. Tofu isn't fermented but made by boiling soy milk and adding a coagulating agent. I was curious and looked it up and that process was described the same way already in Ming Dynasty, so the "rotten" character might just be random and not have any such meaning. It's very common in Chinese that new concepts are expressed with existing characters, because you can't go around making up a new character for everything, no one could ever remember that many characters (bad enough as it is). Often it's just about the sound. For example the characters in the word for cheese (起司) mean "rise" and "manage" when taken on their own. It would be gibberish to read it that way, but every Chinese person knows combined they mean cheese.
- arblomp 5y ago> The bill will also keep companies that produce food from...cell cultures, not slaughtered animals, from using the label “meat,” Do we need to make up a new word for “chunks of bovine muscle tissue” if it wasn’t cut out of a whole-ish cow? Sounds to me like it’s about entrenched farming interests throwing red tape at a perceived threat, not “truth in advertising”. No plant burger or vegan cheeze on the market is nefariously hiding their true identity. They actively market their non-meat-ness, to appeal to their main demographic of meat-avoiders, in big green letters on their packaging. There’s no confusion between their earthy/futurey brand names, versus the old-fashioned-farmer style branding of their slaughtered-animal (their words!) counterparts.
- mc32 5y agoI agree with you on the muscle tissue grown in a lab, if it's more or less the same as bovine tissue from an ex-animal, I think it's fair to call it beef. New synthetic materials though should find their own nouns to use and not coöpt terms with longstanding meanings.
- fmakunbound 5y agoExcept that’s not how language evolves. Good luck with that though.
- bg4 5y agoBeef like product? Worked for cheese wiz.
- jschwartzi 5y agoI guess Texas has finally figured out what Coleco already knew back in the 80's. Warm Dead Bird is a much more accurate name than fried chicken.
- Digory 5y agoI think it makes sense to standardize some word for the difference, especially since you’re talking about a commodity. I imagine cheap meat is going to be qualitatively different than cheap Meetabix or whatever they will call it for some years. “It came from a cow” will impose some kind of minimum quality standard — and it’s not clear that standard will always be met in a non standardized market of bovine cell growers. And the inputs are different. Should an increase in cow meat futures drive up grain prices or plastic clamshell prices?
- jdjdjjs 5y agoI know right?! Like all those people thinking there is butter in peanut butter, beer in root beer, and dogs in hot dogs. Make up your own words for things those words aren’t actually describing!
- mc32 5y agoIndeed. I like my peanut paste and frankfurters myself. Beer, on the other hand, I can understand that. It makes sense to me. On the other hand, we don't eat "chien" in Western culture, but in dire circumstances, so there is low probability of confusion with a hot-dog.
- hoppyhoppy2 5y agoAre "soy milk" and "almond milk" and "oat milk" off-limits, too? Since none of them are actually female mammal secretions, what should we call them instead ?
- stjohnswarts 5y agoWe should also cancel coconut milk even though it's been an expression for hundreds of years. It's only right.
- astura 5y agoI guess milk of magnesia has to go with it too then.
- hoppyhoppy2 5y agoWe might also need to rename the Milky Way galaxy. (Or is it acceptable because it's only milk-Y?)
- underseacables 5y agoSoy, almond, and oat, artificially thickened beverage.
- Ekaros 5y agoThey should be as should butter too. Terms like fat, oil or margarine could be used as well with those.
- hoppyhoppy2 5y agoYou're saying we should rename the popular nut spread (the one that pairs well with jelly) to something like "peanut margarine"?
- Ekaros 5y agoYes. Or "peanut spread", "peanut smooth", "peanut stuff". There are dozens of more honest options.
- ub99 5y agoRight… the primary motivation of Texas lawmakers is that they are concerned about people being fooled… I want to be able to buy non-dairy yogurt and non-dairy mayo. Not “yellow paste” or “white soft creamy desert”. There is nothing wrong with products adapting to new realities and offering alternatives under the same general name. These products are clearly labeled already. The only reason to introduce this legislation is to protect powerful animal product lobbies.
- mc32 5y agoNothing wrong with calling it plant protein. Mayonnaise is just a dressing like thousand island, Russian, ranch and hundreds of others who acquired their own names. Yogurt I'm mildly ok with since basically it just means coagulated milk and also includes the necessary bacteria.
- plntbsd 5y agoHello Mr. Arbitrarily Making Rules! N2mu
- ub99 5y agoI find this discussion fascinating. We are both consumers discussing consumer rights. I - a consumer - want to be able to buy a product I recognize by name, that is also made from specific ingredients that I choose, e.g. almond milk. I don’t need your protection from being “fooled”. You - a consumer - don’t own the ingredients that must be contained in a specific product.
- dariusj18 5y agoLet's let the market decide!
- quantified 5y agoCall it “Houstonnaise”, that’ll show ‘em.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
- igetspam 5y agoThis is stupid. Meat is not solely used to describe the output of slaughter. I'll even help you out: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/meat https://www.dictionary.com/browse/meat We've used "meat" to describe lots of things that we eat for a very long time. This is purely bending the knee to a lobby and hyper regulation of enterprise. It makes sense since that's a core value of republican... wait a second! What's happening? What about free enterprise and not having to do things that go against your personal values in business, like serving The Gays or paying for birth control???? Nobody is fooled. It's called "Beyond Beef," not "Beef." This regulation would make it illegal to label something as "Not Chicken" because lobbyist convinced the state that Texans are too stupid and illiterate to recognize anything but the word "Chicken." Frankly, this law is f'ing insulting. I live in Texas and I know how to read. Full disclosure: I'm not vegan or even vegetarian.
- drewrv 5y ago> Meat is not solely the used to describe the output of slaughter. Reminds me of this bit from an underrated sitcom I binged a while back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN4V_tgXuNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN4V_tgXuNY I'm surprised the lawmakers didn't try to regulate "tuna steaks" out of existence.
- astura 5y agoWatch out, once someone starts successfully selling prepackaged cauliflower steaks then they'll come to take "steak" away too.
- tablespoon 5y ago> We've used "meat" to describe lots of things that we eat for a very long time. That's not a very good argument. Those other uses are only valid in very specific contexts. If someone ordered "extra meat" for their sandwich, and the restaurant threw in some apple slices (as in meat = "the edible part of anything, as a fruit or nut"), pretty much everyone would find that to be scammy. > Nobody is fooled. It's called "Beyond Beef," not "Beef." Yet. This fake "beef" is currently a trendy novelty product. If/when it becomes cheaper than real beef, I guarantee you that there will be concerted attempts to trick people into buying it. These kinds of naming standards are necessary. For instance the difference between "frozen dairy dessert" and "ice cream" (which as a specific government enforced definition). They're both marketed like ice cream, but if I see the former label, I know not to buy it because it's cost-reduced crap (e.g. they whipped so much air into it it can't be called ice cream anymore).
- david38 5y agoThick tires have a lot of “meat”. Meat does not just mean the muscle fiber of an animal. I wonder how opposed Texas was to what people call “American cheese”, now just called “American” because of the FDA. What about negations? Is it now illegal to call something “fake meat”? What about “I can’t believe it’s not butter”? Is that legal in Texas? The lengths to which Texas politicians will go to protect their masters is crazy.
- woopwoop 5y agoIs the premise here that beyond beef et al. are trying to trick customers into thinking they are buying regular beef? A moment's thought reveals that to be utterly absurd. Their business model is entirely dependent on people buying their product specifically because it is plant-based. Seems like old-fashioned protection of a favored industry.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- gus_massa 5y agoIs it fine to call a piece of beef "vegan" because the cow only ate crass and corn, and never ate fish meal an other food supplements made of animal?
- ub99 5y agoThey are preparing for the onslaught of cultured meat/dairy/fish.
- finnthehuman 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyngz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyngz I let google autocomplete "Beyond" and found "Beyond Bread." Without looking, and without previous brand recognition, tell me what "beyond" bread means.
- woopwoop 5y agoIf you look at an actual beyond beef package, you'll see that they say "plant-based" in huge letters on the front. Again, it's integral to their product's market niche that it (a) can be substituted for beef and (b) is not made from animal products. The idea that they're trying to trick anyone here is absurd. If customers believed beyond was actually beef, they would go out of business within a year.
- ub99 5y agoAh, of course, Texas is starting the war on cultured meat. The next decade is going to be fascinating: endless legal blocks attempting to slow down the animal product revolution.
- OnlyRepliesToBS 5y agonot meat
- Ekaros 5y agoI have wondered about this. If there is "beyond meat" could there also be "beyond vegan" which is vegan produced enhanced and made better with meat products. Other lines also work, "improved vegan", "vegan like".
- stjohnswarts 5y agoKissing up to the cattle industry. Only an true idiot would think plant based is the same as beef or meat. This is strictly cozying up to beef industry and their lobbyists. This type of thing is an everyday occurrence in Texas.
- quantified 5y agoMaybe someone tricked a legislator into eating one and they were fooled.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- underseacables 5y agoThey have a point. Almond milk is not milk, that is a fact, but by including the term “milk” it allows then to get into the dairy section of grocery stores, and piggyback on milk as a product. Same here with plant based food.
- geofft 5y agoEggs are not milk either, that is a fact, yet they are also found in the dairy section of grocery stores. Our government should put a stop to this un-American behavior.
- King-Aaron 5y agoPutting eggs in the dairy section is a pretty American thing though
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jschwartzi 5y agoWhat a terrible loss for me as a person to be able to go to the store and buy a "milk" that doesn't come from a cow but that I can put on breakfast cereal and drink with my coffee. Meanwhile I don't see Texas aggressively defending the truth that a tomato is really a fruit and shouldn't be placed with other vegetables in the store.
- benjohnson 5y agoFor culinary use, Tomatoes are a fruit. That may differ from the biological definition but that's ok.
- jschwartzi 5y agoFor culinary use Beyond is a meat. That differs from the biological definition but most people understand that.
- King-Aaron 5y agoI don't think this is a big problem. A beyond meat burger could be marketed as a 'beyond burger'. I don't think people are that silly that they need 'meat' in the name to know it's a meat substitute.
- jgwil2 5y agoBut there are companies that have already built up brand recognition using these names. This regulation places an unfair burden on them. In any case, if your premise that people are not silly is correct, surely they don't need to be protected from confusing animal meat with meat substitutes.
- King-Aaron 5y agoTrue, but if the companies already have good brand recognition, then a label change shouldn't affect their current sales. I'm sure the marketing teams will come up with something to assist with new customers. Society as a whole seems to be progressing towards a lower meat intake diet, so I would think it's likely that new and existing brands of meat alternatives will continue to do well.
- jgwil2 5y ago> if the companies already have good brand recognition, then a label change shouldn't affect their current sales. People recognize a brand by the label. A label change is precisely the kind of thing that would negatively impact brand recognition. > I'm sure the marketing teams will come up with something to assist with new customers. That costs money. Hence the unfair burden.
- King-Aaron 5y agoIf their products are good they will gain popularity on their own merit.
- jgwil2 5y ago
- superkuh 5y agoThis is good legislation getting ahead of the inevitable problems when actually good tasting textured vegetable proteins become cheaper than meat. Once it's cheaper than meat it will be used to replace meat to cut costs in anything at all packaged or processed. The labeling requirements will be needed for consumer protection. It seems like it's a broken legislature being right twice a day kind of thing. They're proposing it for reactionary reasons but it will address a real consumer rights issue in the future.
- plntbsd 5y agoNo. I hate to burst your bubble but governments, especially local do not work like this. More than likely a few lawmakers got generous donations from Tyson, Cargill et all
- Digory 5y agoTyson? Nah, these are the thousands of ranchers spread around Texas. Tyson looks forward to selling you chicken-a-la-vat, and will pay handily to get a federal exception to this rule in a few years.
- superkuh 5y agoVat chicken would be awesome. Tissue culture is the future for meat. But textured vegetable protein is not.
- igetspam 5y agoTyson is heavily invested in plant based proteins. They want in, not out. Cargill for sure though.
- fmakunbound 5y agoPlant based food must be cutting into the animal flesh-based market, which is good news for the environment and so on.
- MR4D 5y ago“How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg? Four. Saying that a tail is a leg doesn't make it a leg.” Abraham Lincoln
- plntbsd 5y agoThis is actually a good thing for plant based food producers and veganism in general. Less emulation of nasty animal parts is a good thing.
- quantified 5y agoSeems more of a truth in labeling measure. A product won’t be allowed to say it contains the meat if it doesn’t. Also says that it cannot claim to imitate the meat if it doesn’t. But the bar for “sufficiently imitates to be allowed to say it imitates” is unclear. Any poor imitation of a Picasso is still an imitation. Talking about “hamburger” is laughable, as ground-up people from Hamburg is forbidden by most culinary guidelines. Waiting for the hammer to fall on hot dog labelling.
- igetspam 5y agoDefine meat. Go check. We'll wait. I'll be hear eating some coconut meat while you look.
- quantified 5y agoIIRC the solid part of a beefsteak tomato (oops!) is referred to as “flesh”. Is there a difference between flesh and meat?
- ub99 5y agoHmm, which products right now claim to contain meat when they don’t?
- plntbsd 5y agoThis really speaks to the intelligence of a) Texans b) Carnivores
- igetspam 5y agoa) Texas lawmaker assumptions about Texans I'm smarter than those dipsh*ts
- sxp 5y agoThe bill is https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/HB00316I.htm https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/html/HB00316I... It's going to be a fun game of whackamole as Beyond Meat starts producing "steak", "fillets", "bacon", etc and other things not explicitly listed in that bill.
- igetspam 5y agoI'm hoping they also throw in lobbying for the other thing Texans blindly care about: oil. OLIVE OIL??? VEGETABLE OIL?? HOW THE HELL CAN THEY CALL IT OIL WHEN IT'S NOT FROM THE FAKE DINO BONUS JESUS PLANTED IN THE DIRT THAT WE USE TO MAKE THE CARS GO?!?!?!
- kodah 5y agoI think politicians are generally expecting the industry to come up with a different name. For all the people talking about being "insulted" by these protections, then maybe you'd be insulted by the fact that orange juice, pasteurized milk, ice cream, and yogurt are all things that have general definitions what constitutes them because businesses have deliberately tried to fool the public. It's why you can't just throw 1% orange juice with sugar water and call it orange juice because you threw some pulp in there. Sometimes this is the FDA and sometimes it's a state, as is the case with frozen yogurt and the state of California. [0] Companies like Beyond Meat are producing products that the aspire to taste just like beef. This is one of the first laws I expected to see, because it's standard practice based on precedent. 0: https://www.realcaliforniamilk.com/real-california/frozen-yogurt https://www.realcaliforniamilk.com/real-california/frozen-yo...
- goldforever 5y agoGood and correct decision.
- jfengel 5y agoI am enjoying the opportunity to separate the libertarians from the corporatists. "Small government! No regulations! Except for the ones that profit me!"