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> His hiring “calls into question parts of our system of inclusion at Apple, including hiring panels, background checks, and our process to ensure our existing

> His hiring “calls into question parts of our system of inclusion at Apple, including hiring panels, background checks, and our process to ensure our existing culture of inclusion is strong enough to withstand individuals who don’t share our inclusive values,” they write. So they want to exclude someone for having different opinions to them, in the name of inclusivity? Clown world.

MyHypatia 5y ago
I think the clown world is hiring someone who wrote: “Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self-regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box of shotgun shells or a jerry can of diesel.” It's especially ironic after an epidemic plague where 70% of health care workers are women. But I guess they're mostly useless baggage who are full of shit. Unlike this guy. See, he really understands how the world is and is just "telling it like it is". Let's trade all these useless women for shotgun shells, and hire people like this guy instead.
- CheezeIt 5y ago
  Yet I see companies like Cisco announcing mental health days for their utterly broken employees.
  - rasputnik6502 5y ago
    Brilliant, now we announce you take mental health break for a week. Let the whole company know how we care about you. What? Not accepting would be disgraceful, sorry I insist you take it and get better NOW.
- kbelder 5y ago
  Yeah, he should have included Bay Area men in that assessment.
- Udik 5y ago
  This is a wider excerpt: "When she was in her teens, her father decided to move the family to the United States, where they suffered a financial reversal she was unwilling to talk about. Suddenly not among the moneyed class, she hustled herself through the redbrick boondocks of the University of Vermont. Citibank internship led to a Deutsche Bank job, and after a few years she was an equity derivatives trader at Deutsche, holding her own against the toff sharks of the City of London. She had wild green eyes, with unnatural red spots in her irises when you pulled close, reminiscent of that Afghan girl from the National Geographic cover. Her personality was flinty and rough, and as leathery as her skin. She had spent years between various jobs backpacking around the rougher parts of the world. She was an imposing, broad-shouldered presence, six feet tall in bare feet, and towering over me in heels. Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self-regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box of shotgun shells or a jerry can of diesel. British Trader, on the other hand, was the sort of woman who would end up a useful ally in that postapocalypse, doing whatever work- be it carpentry, animal husbandry, or a shotgun blast in someone's back- required doing. Long story short, you wanted to tie your genetic wagon to the backing horse of her bloodline. Which is why I was less nervous than I should have been on a random Saturday in July..." So it's a passage in a (novel? Definitely a literary piece anyway) where, in order to better sing the praise of one particular woman, she is compared to another common type in the same environment. All clearly point of view of a narrator (who might or might not be the author). If these are the parameters, we should throw in the bin almost all literature, from men and women alike.
  - MyHypatia 5y ago
    He did not write a fiction novel. He wrote a book about his time working on ads at Facebook. He has now been hired to work on ads at Apple. Pointing this out is not "throwing away all literature".
    - blast 5y ago
      That's not exactly accurate, because his book was obviously modeled on the 'gonzo' journalism of Hunter S. Thompson, Lester Bangs, and that sort of writer from the 70s. Those writers mixed fiction and fictional devices into their "nonfiction", consciously pushing every edge they could, with the intention of shocking the squares and thrilling the hip. To anyone familiar with that genre, it's clear that such passages are satirical excess, not meant to be taken literally, or at least mostly not, but with enough ambiguity left over to be dangerous. What's interesting in this episode is how the culture has shifted. The exact same style that once delighted the counterculture, which at the time was what progressives all identified with, is now a transgression that gets you banned from progressive circles, which have since become elite circles culturally, with growing political power as well. All of this is a tectonic cultural shift, and it's fascinating! There's a very interesting intermediate case at the midpoint between Hunter S. Thompson and this guy: that is the similarly gonzo The eXile which was produced by Mark Ames and Matt Taibbi during their time in Russia in the 90s. The worst passages from that publication—which were far more misogynistic than anything this guy wrote—were dredged up a few years ago, with the intention of denouncing the authors as part of MeToo. In the end, nothing much came of it, partly because one of the women being written about came forward to say that those passages were satirical and that she had always been treated well by the authors. But I think the more important difference between that case and this is that the culture has shifted significantly in the intervening 3 or 4 years. If this incident were happening now, I bet the outcome would be different. The very same gunpowder that made counterculture heroes of Thompson and his ilk, and which the eXile guys got away with by a hair, now blows up in your face, and at much smaller doses too.
- chubbyish 5y ago
  You are hearing only what supports your narrative because you need to hate on something. Humans simply love to hate. The context of the quote is comparing Bay Area women to the Eastern European woman that he is dating. And now you bring the female healthcare workers into it too. Hey women - look what this guy is writing about you. What you will find is that it is actually you, who is decreasing net happiness of everyone around you from your confused outrage. The article author and the people who share the quote out of context, all think they are helping (at least I hope) but they are actually saddening the world and spreading a fiction that doesn’t exist.
  - belltaco 5y ago
    He was hired to work in the Bay Area alongside those women he despises though.
mc32 5y ago
It’s weird for people of Latin descent. If they’re on your side, they are people of color, if they are not, then, by magic, they are no longer. This happens to Hispanic cops as well. If they are on the other side of the progressive equation, then they’re also people of color.
zem 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
- olliej 5y ago
  Yup
- zoeysaurusrex 5y ago
  How so? People can have all the opinions they want but saying things such as "women are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit." isn't okay. Please convince me how that is employable behavior?
  - zem 5y ago
    yes, precisely, which is why i brought up the paradox of tolerance. the parent comment was trying to say that if apple really wanted an "inclusive" workspace, they needed to be inclusive to sexist guy as well. the paradox of tolerance explains why that doesn't work in practice, and why apple was right to eject him.
olliej 5y ago
Different opinions in this case is that women and PoC are inferior. That’s a reasonably difference of opinion to make choices over. I wouldn’t trust performance assessments from him.
zozbot234 5y ago
When the "different opinion" involves proclaiming that a whole class of your fellow workers are "soft, weak and full of $#!+" then yes, you should be resolutely excluded from positions of authority since you have willingly forfeited the kind of trust that's required for any such role. Let this guy stay in a pure engineering/IC role if he wants, but he should not be in a management position.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- chubbyish 5y ago
  He is comparing to Eastern European women.
- thu2111 5y ago
  This is out-of-context quoting. The passage in question is actually about a woman he met and how she was not these things. The very next sentence says: "British Trader, on the other hand, was the sort of woman who would end up a useful ally in that postapocalypse, doing whatever work—be it carpentry, animal husbandry, or a shotgun blast to someone’s back— required doing" In other words he is comparing personalities and attitudes, not making generalisations about literally all women. But the subset of women he is generalising about are exactly the sort who are now trying to make him unemployable by quoting him out of context (i.e. being "full of shit") and demanding that Apple shield them (i.e. "cosset") by getting rid of a guy who finds other kinds of women more attractive. They also appear to be objecting to a passage that states something about the murder rate and naming of high schools in a particular area, which is presumably factual? So, they're kind of proving his point for him.
zoeysaurusrex 5y ago
Who is "they"? Don't be shy. Saying things like "women soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit." is more than just a difference of opinion. You cannot hold that opinion and be a fair leader.
- chubbyish 5y ago
  You are deliberately misquoting.

MyHypatia 5y ago

I think the clown world is hiring someone who wrote: “Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self-regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box of shotgun shells or a jerry can of diesel.” It's especially ironic after an epidemic plague where 70% of health care workers are women. But I guess they're mostly useless baggage who are full of shit. Unlike this guy. See, he really understands how the world is and is just "telling it like it is". Let's trade all these useless women for shotgun shells, and hire people like this guy instead.

CheezeIt 5y ago
Yet I see companies like Cisco announcing mental health days for their utterly broken employees.
- rasputnik6502 5y ago
  Brilliant, now we announce you take mental health break for a week. Let the whole company know how we care about you. What? Not accepting would be disgraceful, sorry I insist you take it and get better NOW.
kbelder 5y ago
Yeah, he should have included Bay Area men in that assessment.
Udik 5y ago
This is a wider excerpt: "When she was in her teens, her father decided to move the family to the United States, where they suffered a financial reversal she was unwilling to talk about. Suddenly not among the moneyed class, she hustled herself through the redbrick boondocks of the University of Vermont. Citibank internship led to a Deutsche Bank job, and after a few years she was an equity derivatives trader at Deutsche, holding her own against the toff sharks of the City of London. She had wild green eyes, with unnatural red spots in her irises when you pulled close, reminiscent of that Afghan girl from the National Geographic cover. Her personality was flinty and rough, and as leathery as her skin. She had spent years between various jobs backpacking around the rougher parts of the world. She was an imposing, broad-shouldered presence, six feet tall in bare feet, and towering over me in heels. Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self-regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box of shotgun shells or a jerry can of diesel. British Trader, on the other hand, was the sort of woman who would end up a useful ally in that postapocalypse, doing whatever work- be it carpentry, animal husbandry, or a shotgun blast in someone's back- required doing. Long story short, you wanted to tie your genetic wagon to the backing horse of her bloodline. Which is why I was less nervous than I should have been on a random Saturday in July..." So it's a passage in a (novel? Definitely a literary piece anyway) where, in order to better sing the praise of one particular woman, she is compared to another common type in the same environment. All clearly point of view of a narrator (who might or might not be the author). If these are the parameters, we should throw in the bin almost all literature, from men and women alike.
- MyHypatia 5y ago
  He did not write a fiction novel. He wrote a book about his time working on ads at Facebook. He has now been hired to work on ads at Apple. Pointing this out is not "throwing away all literature".
  - blast 5y ago
    That's not exactly accurate, because his book was obviously modeled on the 'gonzo' journalism of Hunter S. Thompson, Lester Bangs, and that sort of writer from the 70s. Those writers mixed fiction and fictional devices into their "nonfiction", consciously pushing every edge they could, with the intention of shocking the squares and thrilling the hip. To anyone familiar with that genre, it's clear that such passages are satirical excess, not meant to be taken literally, or at least mostly not, but with enough ambiguity left over to be dangerous. What's interesting in this episode is how the culture has shifted. The exact same style that once delighted the counterculture, which at the time was what progressives all identified with, is now a transgression that gets you banned from progressive circles, which have since become elite circles culturally, with growing political power as well. All of this is a tectonic cultural shift, and it's fascinating! There's a very interesting intermediate case at the midpoint between Hunter S. Thompson and this guy: that is the similarly gonzo The eXile which was produced by Mark Ames and Matt Taibbi during their time in Russia in the 90s. The worst passages from that publication—which were far more misogynistic than anything this guy wrote—were dredged up a few years ago, with the intention of denouncing the authors as part of MeToo. In the end, nothing much came of it, partly because one of the women being written about came forward to say that those passages were satirical and that she had always been treated well by the authors. But I think the more important difference between that case and this is that the culture has shifted significantly in the intervening 3 or 4 years. If this incident were happening now, I bet the outcome would be different. The very same gunpowder that made counterculture heroes of Thompson and his ilk, and which the eXile guys got away with by a hair, now blows up in your face, and at much smaller doses too.
chubbyish 5y ago
You are hearing only what supports your narrative because you need to hate on something. Humans simply love to hate. The context of the quote is comparing Bay Area women to the Eastern European woman that he is dating. And now you bring the female healthcare workers into it too. Hey women - look what this guy is writing about you. What you will find is that it is actually you, who is decreasing net happiness of everyone around you from your confused outrage. The article author and the people who share the quote out of context, all think they are helping (at least I hope) but they are actually saddening the world and spreading a fiction that doesn’t exist.
- belltaco 5y ago
  He was hired to work in the Bay Area alongside those women he despises though.

mc32 5y ago

It’s weird for people of Latin descent. If they’re on your side, they are people of color, if they are not, then, by magic, they are no longer. This happens to Hispanic cops as well. If they are on the other side of the progressive equation, then they’re also people of color.

zem 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

olliej 5y ago
Yup
zoeysaurusrex 5y ago
How so? People can have all the opinions they want but saying things such as "women are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit." isn't okay. Please convince me how that is employable behavior?
- zem 5y ago
  yes, precisely, which is why i brought up the paradox of tolerance. the parent comment was trying to say that if apple really wanted an "inclusive" workspace, they needed to be inclusive to sexist guy as well. the paradox of tolerance explains why that doesn't work in practice, and why apple was right to eject him.

olliej 5y ago

Different opinions in this case is that women and PoC are inferior. That’s a reasonably difference of opinion to make choices over. I wouldn’t trust performance assessments from him.

zozbot234 5y ago

When the "different opinion" involves proclaiming that a whole class of your fellow workers are "soft, weak and full of $#!+" then yes, you should be resolutely excluded from positions of authority since you have willingly forfeited the kind of trust that's required for any such role. Let this guy stay in a pure engineering/IC role if he wants, but he should not be in a management position.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
chubbyish 5y ago
He is comparing to Eastern European women.
thu2111 5y ago
This is out-of-context quoting. The passage in question is actually about a woman he met and how she was not these things. The very next sentence says: "British Trader, on the other hand, was the sort of woman who would end up a useful ally in that postapocalypse, doing whatever work—be it carpentry, animal husbandry, or a shotgun blast to someone’s back— required doing" In other words he is comparing personalities and attitudes, not making generalisations about literally all women. But the subset of women he is generalising about are exactly the sort who are now trying to make him unemployable by quoting him out of context (i.e. being "full of shit") and demanding that Apple shield them (i.e. "cosset") by getting rid of a guy who finds other kinds of women more attractive. They also appear to be objecting to a passage that states something about the murder rate and naming of high schools in a particular area, which is presumably factual? So, they're kind of proving his point for him.

zoeysaurusrex 5y ago

Who is "they"? Don't be shy. Saying things like "women soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit." is more than just a difference of opinion. You cannot hold that opinion and be a fair leader.

chubbyish 5y ago
You are deliberately misquoting.