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You are going to get downvoted to Oblivion for the way you said it without regards to what you are saying which is disappointing because there is an interesting

You are going to get downvoted to Oblivion for the way you said it without regards to what you are saying which is disappointing because there is an interesting conversation to be had around the question “do we need servers in 2021?” I would say no we don’t. I would be interested to hear from people who disagree as to what elements of a servers position you think would be better left to a human instead of an app. Clearly fast food joints don’t use servers but their food quality is always subpar and I don’t think I’ve ever been to a restaurant quality business that didn’t use servers so I wonder what I’m missing.

evgen 5y ago
Nolan Bushnell, the former founder of Atari and Chuck E. Cheese, launched a restaurant chain in 2000 called uWink where you ordered via an app using a tablet at the table and there were only 'expediters' instead of humans with whom you would interact. There was one in Mountain View around 2007 or 2008 at the corner of Castro and California (replacing one of the original Tung Kee Noodle locations.) It did not last long.
- blakesterz 5y ago
  https://www.mercurynews.com/2009/04/22/nolan-bushnells-high-tech-uwink-restaurant-closes-in-mountain-view/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2009/04/22/nolan-bushnells-high-... Doesn't seem like it made much of a splash.
- rightbyte 5y ago
  McDonalds type of serving works for higher end too. My experience with 'apps' for ordering on the otherhand has been terrible. Many unnessecary user hostile steps to uppsell stuff to you.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    Exactly. This is a situation similar to PEVs, where the technology is mature enough to make things work for a decent sized chunk of the market, but what it lacks is investment by someone with the necessary vision to see the benefits of apps rather than someone who is approaching the problem from a purely cost cutting/revenue maximization point of view. For example, why I do need to wait until a waiter notices me, then have them bring me a bill and dissapear, then wait for them to come back to collect the bill, then wait for them to come back and bring me a receipt? That is often a 30 minute wait when you are just trying to pay and get on with your day. Why can't I swipe my phone, have some RFID tech embedded into the table present a bill, I pay and then leave. That is a 10 second process instead of a 30 minute process. And you can still have humans around to make sure things are going smoothly and to resolve issues, but there are many portions of the dining experience which would benefit from apps instead of waiters. Think -- why are you handing a stranger your credit card? Why can't you order ahead? If you know what you want, why can't you order right when you sit down? Why can't your phone buzz you to tell you your table is ready. Think of all the information the phone can provide about the menu items -- not only pictures of the meal, but nutritional information, which farm an item was obtained from. Possible substitutions. All the stuff that you have to deal with the waiter to find out. Why do you need to wait for a waiter to come by and tell you this information? Why do you have to wait to hear the specials instead of looking them up? Or cost of market-priced items. There are whole worlds of added value that apps can bring to the dining experience that would simplify life for both waiters and customers. And all of this can be integrated into reservation/review systems for a tech stack that can provide all the info about a meal, handle meal ordering and billing, handle reservations and seating, and aggregate reviews. And the staff can still be there to greet you, to bring you your food, and to resolve any problems you may have. They just don't need to wait on you, constantly polling to see if there is something you need. The moment someone with vision approaches the problem as something to add value to the customer and give them a better overall experience is the moment app-based dining takes off.
    - livueta 5y ago
      I'm poorly placed to describe it in detail, having only ever been an observer on a handful of occasions, but much of what you're describing exists today in not-even-particularly-fancy restaurants in Shanghai (and presumably elsewhere), enabled by QR codes and wechat voodoo. Think "scan code on menu to order/pay". It seemed like a very efficient system, and I'm sure you're right that the concept will take off outside China when someone builds a sufficiently it-just-werks solution (that hopefully isn't plugged into a massive method of social control). It's just too powerful of an idea space to go ignored forever.
    - rightbyte 5y ago
      Ye the waiting to pay is especially tideous since it is pointless. It is ofent a problem of understaffed though. With McDonald's type system you can see the queue and go somewhere else so it wins there too. Vapiano is a German chain that is quite nice and do over the desk orders. They hand out beeper for pizzas which is good for longer wait meals. I would wish waiters just were a thing for high end restaurant that can afford to be properly staffed.
nexuist 5y ago
> position you think would be better left to a human instead of an app Customer service? Imagine having to fill out a support ticket because a robot brought the wrong kind of juice to your table. I think the act of actually bringing the food out could be automated for sure, but in most places with servers this is solved by having some staff only focus on delivering the food while the servers handle individual table issues and "onboard" new customers. Ultimately people choose to dine-in rather than go through drive-thrus for 1) food quality and 2) the social atmosphere. A restaurant with no servers is just a room with a bunch of tables - a cafeteria, if you will. And of course some people are happy with cafeterias, but if you're spending big I think you expect more than just a cafeteria, and with that comes the human element of being able to interact with others.
chad_strategic 5y ago
> You are going to get downvoted to Oblivion Wait. Why should I worry about getting down voted? These aren't points or money or bitcoin. There is no reward at the end of the day for how many votes you rack up on hacker news. I had an opinion, I should have added more substance to the comment (I added some more below), but regardless. My opinion didn't offend anybody, I didn't purposely set out to hurt/insult anyone. I didn't use foul language. The opinion seems to be out of favor, yet no one addresses the fact that paying waiters > $20 is going to be a big problem coming out of the pandemic. (inflation, deflation, stagflation, chose your poison) I have noticed it for a while, there seems to be group think on hacker news, kinda smells like stack overflow.

evgen 5y ago

Nolan Bushnell, the former founder of Atari and Chuck E. Cheese, launched a restaurant chain in 2000 called uWink where you ordered via an app using a tablet at the table and there were only 'expediters' instead of humans with whom you would interact. There was one in Mountain View around 2007 or 2008 at the corner of Castro and California (replacing one of the original Tung Kee Noodle locations.) It did not last long.

blakesterz 5y ago
https://www.mercurynews.com/2009/04/22/nolan-bushnells-high-tech-uwink-restaurant-closes-in-mountain-view/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2009/04/22/nolan-bushnells-high-... Doesn't seem like it made much of a splash.
rightbyte 5y ago
McDonalds type of serving works for higher end too. My experience with 'apps' for ordering on the otherhand has been terrible. Many unnessecary user hostile steps to uppsell stuff to you.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  Exactly. This is a situation similar to PEVs, where the technology is mature enough to make things work for a decent sized chunk of the market, but what it lacks is investment by someone with the necessary vision to see the benefits of apps rather than someone who is approaching the problem from a purely cost cutting/revenue maximization point of view. For example, why I do need to wait until a waiter notices me, then have them bring me a bill and dissapear, then wait for them to come back to collect the bill, then wait for them to come back and bring me a receipt? That is often a 30 minute wait when you are just trying to pay and get on with your day. Why can't I swipe my phone, have some RFID tech embedded into the table present a bill, I pay and then leave. That is a 10 second process instead of a 30 minute process. And you can still have humans around to make sure things are going smoothly and to resolve issues, but there are many portions of the dining experience which would benefit from apps instead of waiters. Think -- why are you handing a stranger your credit card? Why can't you order ahead? If you know what you want, why can't you order right when you sit down? Why can't your phone buzz you to tell you your table is ready. Think of all the information the phone can provide about the menu items -- not only pictures of the meal, but nutritional information, which farm an item was obtained from. Possible substitutions. All the stuff that you have to deal with the waiter to find out. Why do you need to wait for a waiter to come by and tell you this information? Why do you have to wait to hear the specials instead of looking them up? Or cost of market-priced items. There are whole worlds of added value that apps can bring to the dining experience that would simplify life for both waiters and customers. And all of this can be integrated into reservation/review systems for a tech stack that can provide all the info about a meal, handle meal ordering and billing, handle reservations and seating, and aggregate reviews. And the staff can still be there to greet you, to bring you your food, and to resolve any problems you may have. They just don't need to wait on you, constantly polling to see if there is something you need. The moment someone with vision approaches the problem as something to add value to the customer and give them a better overall experience is the moment app-based dining takes off.
  - livueta 5y ago
    I'm poorly placed to describe it in detail, having only ever been an observer on a handful of occasions, but much of what you're describing exists today in not-even-particularly-fancy restaurants in Shanghai (and presumably elsewhere), enabled by QR codes and wechat voodoo. Think "scan code on menu to order/pay". It seemed like a very efficient system, and I'm sure you're right that the concept will take off outside China when someone builds a sufficiently it-just-werks solution (that hopefully isn't plugged into a massive method of social control). It's just too powerful of an idea space to go ignored forever.
  - rightbyte 5y ago
    Ye the waiting to pay is especially tideous since it is pointless. It is ofent a problem of understaffed though. With McDonald's type system you can see the queue and go somewhere else so it wins there too. Vapiano is a German chain that is quite nice and do over the desk orders. They hand out beeper for pizzas which is good for longer wait meals. I would wish waiters just were a thing for high end restaurant that can afford to be properly staffed.

nexuist 5y ago

> position you think would be better left to a human instead of an app Customer service? Imagine having to fill out a support ticket because a robot brought the wrong kind of juice to your table. I think the act of actually bringing the food out could be automated for sure, but in most places with servers this is solved by having some staff only focus on delivering the food while the servers handle individual table issues and "onboard" new customers. Ultimately people choose to dine-in rather than go through drive-thrus for 1) food quality and 2) the social atmosphere. A restaurant with no servers is just a room with a bunch of tables - a cafeteria, if you will. And of course some people are happy with cafeterias, but if you're spending big I think you expect more than just a cafeteria, and with that comes the human element of being able to interact with others.

chad_strategic 5y ago

> You are going to get downvoted to Oblivion Wait. Why should I worry about getting down voted? These aren't points or money or bitcoin. There is no reward at the end of the day for how many votes you rack up on hacker news. I had an opinion, I should have added more substance to the comment (I added some more below), but regardless. My opinion didn't offend anybody, I didn't purposely set out to hurt/insult anyone. I didn't use foul language. The opinion seems to be out of favor, yet no one addresses the fact that paying waiters > $20 is going to be a big problem coming out of the pandemic. (inflation, deflation, stagflation, chose your poison) I have noticed it for a while, there seems to be group think on hacker news, kinda smells like stack overflow.