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Fuel cell technology used in cars is inferior to battery technology cars. But it's not comparable here. A light, intermittently used vehicle, with fast startup
by darksaints 5y ago
Fuel cell technology used in cars is inferior to battery technology cars. But it's not comparable here. A light, intermittently used vehicle, with fast startup and frequent shutoff, and with no long range requirements, does not have the same set of constraints that class 8 trucks do. Holy Father Elon's criticism of fuel cells in passenger vehicles do not apply here at all.
800hp fuel cell: 500-600lbs, 3 cubic feet. 60% efficiency baseline, easily augmented to 75% with heat recovery. https://technology.nasa.gov/patent/LEW-TOPS-120 https://technology.nasa.gov/patent/LEW-TOPS-120
Runs on any hydrogen-based fuel: pure hydrogen, methane, butane, propane, gasoline, avgas, diesel, ammonia, whatever. In fact, you can mix fuels in the same tank, and the SOFC will consume them regardless. Use any infrastructure that you want. Use any fuel system that you want. You can start out running standard low-sulfur diesel, or use natural gas or propane with standard modifications that are already used for diesel conversions all over the third world. If hydrogen storage works out for your use case, then use it. If it doesn't, then just use diesel and wait for synthetic fuels to drop in price.
There will never be a battery-powered truck that can compete with that value proposition for long haul trucking.
- rurounijones 5y agoYou might find a more willing-to-listen audience if you lay of the "You people all worship Elon like a god" angle.
- darksaints 5y agoI'm not wrong. Have you seen his posts? They're literally a regurgitation of Elon statements and tweets. I have no interest in convincing religious cultists that they're wrong. I merely post to correct misinformation from them.
- SigmundA 5y agoI am regurgitating facts as I know them, if they happen to line up with Elon that is not by choice, I am not the cultist here.
- SigmundA 5y ago"Never" is bold statement, bottom line current battery technology is lighter than current fuel cell technology in production vehicles while being simpler and more cost effective. Please let me know when that situation changes I am not confident in either technology to state it will never happen.
- darksaints 5y agoYou will also never be lighter than air, no matter how many diets you go on. Never isn't a bold statement at all when you're dealing with the laws of physics. Batteries are rapidly improving, but they would have to exceed the physical electron carrying capacity of all known battery materials if it wants to get somewhere within an order of magnitude where they need to be for long haul trucking.
- SigmundA 5y agoThe theoretical maximum for a lithium anode battery (sulfur cathode) is 2600 wh/kg nearly 10 times the current cells used in vehicles.
- darksaints 5y agoSo about half the energy density of methanol, which is already not good enough for long range trucking. Gotcha.
- SigmundA 5y agoI thought we where talking about hydrogen which is 2800 wh/kg not methanol which will produce CO2 when used. Now your fuel cell needs 100% conversion to get that energy density in electrical form. Goal post moved, got it.
- darksaints 5y agoNo, we were talking about batteries, and how the theoretical limits of battery energy density isn't even close to the energy density required by long haul trucking. You triumphantly declared that Lithium Sulfur has a theoretical max (which you'll never get to, BTW) of 2600 wh/kg. I used that opportunity to compare it to Methanol, which has already been proposed as a green fuel (it is a common form of biofuel), and already discarded by the long haul trucking industry due to energy density concerns. If methanol isn't good enough, batteries aren't even close. I don't know if you are getting your Hyrogen facts from some special Cult of Elon fact repository, but you're wrong. Again. Hydrogen is 39000 wh/kg, not 2800. That's why it is a potential solution, where batteries never could be.