5 ms·

I feel like I work on a different web. > Note: With great power comes great responsibility! With Houdini you could invent your own masonry, grid, or regions i

I feel like I work on a different web. > Note: With great power comes great responsibility! With Houdini you could invent your own masonry, grid, or regions implementation, but doing so is not necessarily the best idea. The CSS Working group does a lot of work to ensure every feature is performant, handles all edge cases, and considers security, privacy, and accessibility. Sounds like a lot of work to display a bloody list.

smhmd 5y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W79T2ibd5Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W79T2ibd5Y
croes 5y ago
Sounds like possible security and privacy nightmare for users
afavour 5y ago
> Sounds like a lot of work to display a bloody list. UI is complex? Who knew!
jrochkind1 5y ago
If <ul> meets the needs of your application, there's no reason you'd have to do more work than that.
- brianzelip 5y ago
  Masonry is a <ul>.
madeofpalk 5y ago
My understanding is that these Houdini features are aimed more at big library/framework authors. It's not for "every day users". It's more expected that you'll use things that use Houdini under the hood as an implementation detail. A new layout mode (like CSS Grid) isn't available yet? This allows someone to write a polyfill for it. That's neat!
- holtalanm 5y ago
  > A new layout mode (like CSS Grid) isn't available yet? This allows someone to write a polyfill for it. That's neat! this was my first thought, too. We have polyfills for js features that don't yet exist in a lot of browsers, but polyfills for css are either very complicated or just don't exist in some cases.
  - the_other 5y ago
    Will there be a JS polyfill for Houdini?
    - akiselev 5y ago
      Probably not a practical one, for the same reasons that discourage CSS polyfills. I think this feature is aimed not at developers who have to support legacy browsers but those who want to use newer CSS standards in self updating browsers without having to wait for the laggards. Safari is (was?) often criticized for being very slow to implement adopted CSS standards so that might have been the impetus. Once Houdini Paint/Layout/Animation APIs lands and enough clients update, devs can switch to Houdini and use any new/experimental CSS standards that has an open source implementation.
    - girvo 5y ago
      https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/css-paint-polyfill https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/css-paint-polyfill Seems there is for parts of it already
- Rapzid 5y ago
  > A new layout mode (like CSS Grid) isn't available yet? This allows someone to write a polyfill for it. That's neat! Hopefully this won't be used as an excuse for new standards proposals to never move forward and/or browser teams to slow-roll implementing new standards natively..
dheera 5y ago
I constantly wonder why so much work on CSS and absolutely zero work on implementing basic primitives like <input type="slider" min="0" max="1000" step="10"> and <input type="toggle"> and <tabviewpager><tab></tab><tab></tab></tabviewpager> and <input pinchzoom="true" src="foo.jpg"> and other utterly basic UI elements with full support for swipe gestures. It's 2021 and people still do div and javascript hell to implement these things.
- city41 5y ago
  There are primitives like that, such as https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/input/range https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/in... There's even a color picker in native html now.
  - dheera 5y ago
    Oh cool! maybe they are finally getting with the beat. What about spinners, pull to refresh and other things ... would be nice to standardize all of these such that they display with your system's native widgets. The code for those CSS spinners is horrifying spaghetti code whereas I should be able to just do <spinner> and get an Android native spinner on Android and an iOS native spinner on iOS.
    - sabellito 5y ago
      input types like range were introduced in 2014, here's a tutorial from then: https://css-tricks.com/datalists-different-input-types/ https://css-tricks.com/datalists-different-input-types/ I think I get the point you're trying to make, and I find it difficult that someone could make a list of all the things that "should be in by default" vs providing the building blocks.
      - dheera 5y ago
        Maybe they could just start by providing all the Android layout XML components as native in HTML6?

smhmd 5y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W79T2ibd5Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W79T2ibd5Y

croes 5y ago

Sounds like possible security and privacy nightmare for users

afavour 5y ago

> Sounds like a lot of work to display a bloody list. UI is complex? Who knew!

jrochkind1 5y ago

If <ul> meets the needs of your application, there's no reason you'd have to do more work than that.

brianzelip 5y ago
Masonry is a <ul>.

madeofpalk 5y ago

My understanding is that these Houdini features are aimed more at big library/framework authors. It's not for "every day users". It's more expected that you'll use things that use Houdini under the hood as an implementation detail. A new layout mode (like CSS Grid) isn't available yet? This allows someone to write a polyfill for it. That's neat!

holtalanm 5y ago
> A new layout mode (like CSS Grid) isn't available yet? This allows someone to write a polyfill for it. That's neat! this was my first thought, too. We have polyfills for js features that don't yet exist in a lot of browsers, but polyfills for css are either very complicated or just don't exist in some cases.
- the_other 5y ago
  Will there be a JS polyfill for Houdini?
  - akiselev 5y ago
    Probably not a practical one, for the same reasons that discourage CSS polyfills. I think this feature is aimed not at developers who have to support legacy browsers but those who want to use newer CSS standards in self updating browsers without having to wait for the laggards. Safari is (was?) often criticized for being very slow to implement adopted CSS standards so that might have been the impetus. Once Houdini Paint/Layout/Animation APIs lands and enough clients update, devs can switch to Houdini and use any new/experimental CSS standards that has an open source implementation.
  - girvo 5y ago
    https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/css-paint-polyfill https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/css-paint-polyfill Seems there is for parts of it already
Rapzid 5y ago
> A new layout mode (like CSS Grid) isn't available yet? This allows someone to write a polyfill for it. That's neat! Hopefully this won't be used as an excuse for new standards proposals to never move forward and/or browser teams to slow-roll implementing new standards natively..

dheera 5y ago

I constantly wonder why so much work on CSS and absolutely zero work on implementing basic primitives like <input type="slider" min="0" max="1000" step="10"> and <input type="toggle"> and <tabviewpager><tab></tab><tab></tab></tabviewpager> and <input pinchzoom="true" src="foo.jpg"> and other utterly basic UI elements with full support for swipe gestures. It's 2021 and people still do div and javascript hell to implement these things.

city41 5y ago
There are primitives like that, such as https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/input/range https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/in... There's even a color picker in native html now.
- dheera 5y ago
  Oh cool! maybe they are finally getting with the beat. What about spinners, pull to refresh and other things ... would be nice to standardize all of these such that they display with your system's native widgets. The code for those CSS spinners is horrifying spaghetti code whereas I should be able to just do <spinner> and get an Android native spinner on Android and an iOS native spinner on iOS.
  - sabellito 5y ago
    input types like range were introduced in 2014, here's a tutorial from then: https://css-tricks.com/datalists-different-input-types/ https://css-tricks.com/datalists-different-input-types/ I think I get the point you're trying to make, and I find it difficult that someone could make a list of all the things that "should be in by default" vs providing the building blocks.
    - dheera 5y ago
      Maybe they could just start by providing all the Android layout XML components as native in HTML6?