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The Tesla semi, without batteries on the trailer, is limited to about 500kWh of batteries...maybe 1000kWh if you have some extremely clever engineering. You can
by darksaints 5y ago
The Tesla semi, without batteries on the trailer, is limited to about 500kWh of batteries...maybe 1000kWh if you have some extremely clever engineering. You can't really do much more than that without moving to a monocoque carbon frame to offset the weight, because the batteries are too dense. Commercial trucks have total weight limits, but they also have per-axle weight limits. If you are too heavy on a single axle, you're illegal.
And while 500kWh batteries, are awesome and the perfect use case for local delivery, they won't cut it for OTR trucking. You need 700 mi of range at an absolute minimum for singles, ~2000mi for doubles. The weight of a 700 mile battery is a non-starter. Tesla's largest battery pack that they're even considering selling has a 500 mi range.
There is a reason Tesla quotes kWh/mile, and not kWh/lb-mi (cargo, not GVW). They aren't competitive, and they likely never will be. And adding more batteries just makes the economics less competitive. There's a saying in the aircraft industry: it takes a lot of fuel to fly a lot of fuel. The same goes for batteries: it takes a lot of battery to move a lot of battery. Batteries, no matter what technical advances can be made, have limitations posed by the laws of physics, and none of them will ever have the energy density to make sense for long haul trucking. Which is why actual trucking companies that have actually beat His Lord and Savior Elon Musk to market with electric trucks (i.e. Volvo) are still looking to better alternatives in the long run.
- SigmundA 5y agoSo now how much does a hydrogen fuel cell semi weigh whats its range? How much does it cost? Where do you fill it up? Current hydrogen fuel cell vehicles weight more than an equivalent battery powered car not not even looking at cost and power and refueling infrastructure. I agree that diesel is most viable for long haul and probably will be for some time and still has room to improve see Frieghtliners SuperTruck.
- darksaints 5y agoFuel cell technology used in cars is inferior to battery technology cars. But it's not comparable here. A light, intermittently used vehicle, with fast startup and frequent shutoff, and with no long range requirements, does not have the same set of constraints that class 8 trucks do. Holy Father Elon's criticism of fuel cells in passenger vehicles do not apply here at all. 800hp fuel cell: 500-600lbs, 3 cubic feet. 60% efficiency baseline, easily augmented to 75% with heat recovery. https://technology.nasa.gov/patent/LEW-TOPS-120 https://technology.nasa.gov/patent/LEW-TOPS-120 Runs on any hydrogen-based fuel: pure hydrogen, methane, butane, propane, gasoline, avgas, diesel, ammonia, whatever. In fact, you can mix fuels in the same tank, and the SOFC will consume them regardless. Use any infrastructure that you want. Use any fuel system that you want. You can start out running standard low-sulfur diesel, or use natural gas or propane with standard modifications that are already used for diesel conversions all over the third world. If hydrogen storage works out for your use case, then use it. If it doesn't, then just use diesel and wait for synthetic fuels to drop in price. There will never be a battery-powered truck that can compete with that value proposition for long haul trucking.
- rurounijones 5y agoYou might find a more willing-to-listen audience if you lay of the "You people all worship Elon like a god" angle.
- darksaints 5y agoI'm not wrong. Have you seen his posts? They're literally a regurgitation of Elon statements and tweets. I have no interest in convincing religious cultists that they're wrong. I merely post to correct misinformation from them.
- SigmundA 5y agoI am regurgitating facts as I know them, if they happen to line up with Elon that is not by choice, I am not the cultist here.
- SigmundA 5y ago"Never" is bold statement, bottom line current battery technology is lighter than current fuel cell technology in production vehicles while being simpler and more cost effective. Please let me know when that situation changes I am not confident in either technology to state it will never happen.
- darksaints 5y agoYou will also never be lighter than air, no matter how many diets you go on. Never isn't a bold statement at all when you're dealing with the laws of physics. Batteries are rapidly improving, but they would have to exceed the physical electron carrying capacity of all known battery materials if it wants to get somewhere within an order of magnitude where they need to be for long haul trucking.
- SigmundA 5y agoThe theoretical maximum for a lithium anode battery (sulfur cathode) is 2600 wh/kg nearly 10 times the current cells used in vehicles.