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The overwhelming sentiments of comments on this is negative, but as a fairly non-technical audience far removed from ML, I find this pretty fascinating.

by basseq 5y ago

yannoninator 5y ago
HN is negative about all tech except Rust and Haskell.
- willis936 5y ago
  Why strawman for user hostile policies? Users don't even know that they are giving up privacy. How is that remotely acceptable? How is criticizing such a glaring issue being "negative about tech". At some point it's just tiring to be a user that is continuously jerked around. I love tech, but everyday I understand the libre hermit POV more.
  - yannoninator 5y ago
    > Why strawman for user hostile policies? I'm stating a fact of this tech forum. > Users don't even know that they are giving up privacy. lol, Do you think the users care about privacy on Dropbox. The tech boffins might, but not the average user. How have you been spied on as a Dropbox user? Can you do a better service than them? What alternative do you suggest that is in the same league as Dropbox?
    - willis936 5y ago
      >I'm stating a fact of this tech forum. And I'm stating facts about Dropbox. Users are not told that their data will be looked at by others. Having the keys to do it and actually doing it are two very different things. Why are you asking all of these questions about the current market? Are you just trying to point out how bad the current situation is? If so, then I agree. That's why I and other users here paying attention are doling out criticism.
      - yannoninator 5y ago
        > And I'm stating facts about Dropbox. Users are not told that their data will be looked at by others. Having the keys to do it and actually doing it are two very different things. OK, but so what? Again the tech boffins would care about this enough to take action on this 'issue'. You can always move your files away from Dropbox if you don't like it, I'm sure companies who are collecting information on you (name, email, browser, file_id) are doing this to improve the service that you've signed their TOS with. > I love tech, but everyday I understand the libre hermit POV more. Then don't use Dropbox or similar services then, it's that simple. There is always an SFTP/Rsync server waiting for you to upload your files on, or better yet for your usecase, an encrypted USB drive.
trompetenaccoun 5y ago
I'm also non-technical and I do see the value for the customer, BUT it's very obvious there are issues here. Dropbox claims their service is secure and privacy preserving. Quote from their website:"All files you store in Dropbox are private. Other people can't see and open those files unless you purposely share links to files or share folders with others." Funnily enough in the next sentence already they somewhat water this down again, saying dropbox employees do access your files "on rare occasions", for example "when necessary to ensure that our systems and features are working as designed (e.g., debugging performance issues, making sure that our search functionality is returning relevant results, developing image search functionality, refining content suggestions, etc.)" Yes, it's possible to do such indexing. They can also start running facial recognition software like Facebook does. What's going to happening next with all the data they collect? Doesn't take a pessimistic coder to know, any layperson should be able to figure this out.
- quelltext 5y ago
  Sure, it's fair to be concerned about that, but is it necessary to focus so much on that? A company builds a new feature, it's useful, and even more they write a detailed article about how they built it. Isn't it fair to appreciate that and discuss the approach? I get it, there are some issues with Dropbox, etc. but must every article about some company feature have a majority of comments talk about how they liked them better in the past, how they wanna stop using it, how environmentally problematic some of the company products are, and the likes? I think there's also a time and place to discuss those (e.g. on comments for an article about the business practices, or some medium opinion piece), but I'd prefer on submissions like this one we focus on the content at hand, and maybe have a single comment thread only dedicated to tangential issues about the company. EDIT: TBF, I don't actually see that much unrelated negativity in this comment section.
  - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
    Granted, I appreciate them explaining and properly disclosing it. So to be clear my criticism isn't Dropbox specific but this also goes for other cloud storage providers. That said just because others do the same (or even worse) doesn't make it any better. The loss of privacy and rights is one of the biggest issues in tech these days. I wouldn't even be that opposed to it if the business model would at least recognize the users as content creators and pay them for the value they add, but the way it is now we provide all the value and the shareholders reap the rewards. Humans have become a commodity, like cattle. Our private data is the milk, and they're milking us dry like no tomorrow.
sjm-lbm 5y ago
The hilarious part of this, to me, is that it feels like this thread is just copying the (now-famous) HN thread announcing Dropbox. As a technical user, I get why people are concerned. As someone that's seen this movie before, I tend to think that Dropbox has a better handle on what nontechnical users want than HN does.
paxys 5y ago
For being a technical/startup forum HN is extremely anti-tech in general.
mdoms 5y ago
I think it's shameful how negative these comments are. I'm not here to make a value judgment on Dropbox, but the content of the post was fascinating and very well presented.

The overwhelming sentiments of comments on this is negative, but as a fairly non-technical audience far removed from ML, I find this pretty fascinating.

by basseq 5y ago

The overwhelming sentiments of comments on this is negative, but as a fairly non-technical audience far removed from ML, I find this pretty fascinating.

yannoninator 5y ago

HN is negative about all tech except Rust and Haskell.

willis936 5y ago
Why strawman for user hostile policies? Users don't even know that they are giving up privacy. How is that remotely acceptable? How is criticizing such a glaring issue being "negative about tech". At some point it's just tiring to be a user that is continuously jerked around. I love tech, but everyday I understand the libre hermit POV more.
- yannoninator 5y ago
  > Why strawman for user hostile policies? I'm stating a fact of this tech forum. > Users don't even know that they are giving up privacy. lol, Do you think the users care about privacy on Dropbox. The tech boffins might, but not the average user. How have you been spied on as a Dropbox user? Can you do a better service than them? What alternative do you suggest that is in the same league as Dropbox?
  - willis936 5y ago
    >I'm stating a fact of this tech forum. And I'm stating facts about Dropbox. Users are not told that their data will be looked at by others. Having the keys to do it and actually doing it are two very different things. Why are you asking all of these questions about the current market? Are you just trying to point out how bad the current situation is? If so, then I agree. That's why I and other users here paying attention are doling out criticism.
    - yannoninator 5y ago
      > And I'm stating facts about Dropbox. Users are not told that their data will be looked at by others. Having the keys to do it and actually doing it are two very different things. OK, but so what? Again the tech boffins would care about this enough to take action on this 'issue'. You can always move your files away from Dropbox if you don't like it, I'm sure companies who are collecting information on you (name, email, browser, file_id) are doing this to improve the service that you've signed their TOS with. > I love tech, but everyday I understand the libre hermit POV more. Then don't use Dropbox or similar services then, it's that simple. There is always an SFTP/Rsync server waiting for you to upload your files on, or better yet for your usecase, an encrypted USB drive.

trompetenaccoun 5y ago

I'm also non-technical and I do see the value for the customer, BUT it's very obvious there are issues here. Dropbox claims their service is secure and privacy preserving. Quote from their website:"All files you store in Dropbox are private. Other people can't see and open those files unless you purposely share links to files or share folders with others." Funnily enough in the next sentence already they somewhat water this down again, saying dropbox employees do access your files "on rare occasions", for example "when necessary to ensure that our systems and features are working as designed (e.g., debugging performance issues, making sure that our search functionality is returning relevant results, developing image search functionality, refining content suggestions, etc.)" Yes, it's possible to do such indexing. They can also start running facial recognition software like Facebook does. What's going to happening next with all the data they collect? Doesn't take a pessimistic coder to know, any layperson should be able to figure this out.

quelltext 5y ago
Sure, it's fair to be concerned about that, but is it necessary to focus so much on that? A company builds a new feature, it's useful, and even more they write a detailed article about how they built it. Isn't it fair to appreciate that and discuss the approach? I get it, there are some issues with Dropbox, etc. but must every article about some company feature have a majority of comments talk about how they liked them better in the past, how they wanna stop using it, how environmentally problematic some of the company products are, and the likes? I think there's also a time and place to discuss those (e.g. on comments for an article about the business practices, or some medium opinion piece), but I'd prefer on submissions like this one we focus on the content at hand, and maybe have a single comment thread only dedicated to tangential issues about the company. EDIT: TBF, I don't actually see that much unrelated negativity in this comment section.
- trompetenaccoun 5y ago
  Granted, I appreciate them explaining and properly disclosing it. So to be clear my criticism isn't Dropbox specific but this also goes for other cloud storage providers. That said just because others do the same (or even worse) doesn't make it any better. The loss of privacy and rights is one of the biggest issues in tech these days. I wouldn't even be that opposed to it if the business model would at least recognize the users as content creators and pay them for the value they add, but the way it is now we provide all the value and the shareholders reap the rewards. Humans have become a commodity, like cattle. Our private data is the milk, and they're milking us dry like no tomorrow.

sjm-lbm 5y ago

The hilarious part of this, to me, is that it feels like this thread is just copying the (now-famous) HN thread announcing Dropbox. As a technical user, I get why people are concerned. As someone that's seen this movie before, I tend to think that Dropbox has a better handle on what nontechnical users want than HN does.

paxys 5y ago

For being a technical/startup forum HN is extremely anti-tech in general.

mdoms 5y ago

I think it's shameful how negative these comments are. I'm not here to make a value judgment on Dropbox, but the content of the post was fascinating and very well presented.