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> The primary reason web apps are slow is because the business logic is typically un-optimized. This crops up a lot, shifting the blame from the web technolog

> The primary reason web apps are slow is because the business logic is typically un-optimized. This crops up a lot, shifting the blame from the web technologies to the developers who target those technologies, but where are the exceptions? What's the best example of a large, complex, efficient and responsive web-based application? It's easy to give examples of tragically inefficient and unresponsive web-based applications (Teams, Slack), but no one ever seems able to give a counterexample. Pinboard and Hacker News are fast and efficient precisely because they make minimal 'application-like' use of the web platform. Visual Studio Code is generally pretty responsive, but if I understand correctly there's little question that it uses vastly more computational resources than if it had been built using a 'conventional' (non-web-based) GUI toolkit.

sethhochberg 5y ago
Figma is one of my favorite examples of something which is a nontrivial webapp that avoid feeling like a webapp a lot of the time, even when running in a browser instead of their Electron wrapper. But their technical leadership contains some of the (arguably) most accomplished folks working in the Javascript world these days, they might be an outlier in this area.
- MaxBarraclough 5y ago
  How is it on resource-usage though? Another example: Google Docs seems ok on responsiveness, but not on efficiency (especially memory).
- SheinhardtWigCo 5y ago
  It’s easy to forget that Figma is a webapp, until you leave it running in the background and your $2000 computer grinds to a halt.
- habryka 5y ago
  Figma is built in Web-Assembly (compiled from C++) [1] and Canvas, basically sidestepping the vast majority of the web stack. That's why it's fast. [1]: https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-by-3x/ https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-...
  - p_j_w 5y ago
    This exchange is absolutely hilarious to me. We've got people complaining about Google doing something while praising Figma for not being so foolish or evil and extolling them as being exceptionally clever. Except oops, turns out Figma is doing the same thing that is believed to be foolish or evil. It turns out HN is prone to the same sort of knee jerk reactions as most every other "social news" site (even if to a lesser degree). Who would've thought?!
  - sethhochberg 5y ago
    Neat, I had no idea it wasn't a normal old DOM application. Certainly does add a lot of validation to Google's approach here.

sethhochberg 5y ago

Figma is one of my favorite examples of something which is a nontrivial webapp that avoid feeling like a webapp a lot of the time, even when running in a browser instead of their Electron wrapper. But their technical leadership contains some of the (arguably) most accomplished folks working in the Javascript world these days, they might be an outlier in this area.

MaxBarraclough 5y ago
How is it on resource-usage though? Another example: Google Docs seems ok on responsiveness, but not on efficiency (especially memory).
SheinhardtWigCo 5y ago
It’s easy to forget that Figma is a webapp, until you leave it running in the background and your $2000 computer grinds to a halt.
habryka 5y ago
Figma is built in Web-Assembly (compiled from C++) [1] and Canvas, basically sidestepping the vast majority of the web stack. That's why it's fast. [1]: https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-by-3x/ https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-...
- p_j_w 5y ago
  This exchange is absolutely hilarious to me. We've got people complaining about Google doing something while praising Figma for not being so foolish or evil and extolling them as being exceptionally clever. Except oops, turns out Figma is doing the same thing that is believed to be foolish or evil. It turns out HN is prone to the same sort of knee jerk reactions as most every other "social news" site (even if to a lesser degree). Who would've thought?!
- sethhochberg 5y ago
  Neat, I had no idea it wasn't a normal old DOM application. Certainly does add a lot of validation to Google's approach here.