5 ms·

You won't get 75Wh to the wheel with 2kg and the hydrogen tanks and fuel cells have weight.

bildung 5y ago
Yes, obviously, but even then batteries are multiple times heavier. A fuel cell for this size is about 50kg currently, and a tank 50-80kg. The Mirai has a tank for 5kg hydrogen which weighs about 90kg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai
- SigmundA 5y ago
  Mirai: 1,850 kg Model 3 (Long-Range Dual-Motor): 1,847kg I am going to guess it's all the structure needed to protect the 10,000 psi hydrogen tanks.
  - bildung 5y ago
    Or you don't guess, follow the link instead and find out the Mirai is a) a bigger car and b) a hybrid, complete with electric motor and battery pack.
    - SigmundA 5y ago
      The Mirai has a 1.6 kwh battery pack because the fuel cell cannot output the needed power for acceleration and to allow regenerative braking. It runs on the electric motor alone just like a Tesla. But yeah so add the buffer battery in your weight calculations needed for a fuel cell vehicle. Pretty minor difference in size, unclear how that translates into usable space: Mirai Length 4,890 mm Width 1,815 mm Height 1,535 mm Model 3 Length 4,694 mm Width 1,849 mm Height 1,443 mm Also note the Mirai has a single 113kw motor (even with buffer battery to help) while the long range single motor model 3 is 211kw and only weighs 1730kg, I actually posted the heaviest performance AWD model 3. The Tesla completely outperforms the Mirai in cost, weight, ease of charging and performance.
      - bildung 5y ago
        Nothing of this is relevant for the question of the weight of a hydrogen tank.
        SigmundA 5y ago
        Seem pretty relevant to look at the final weight, cost and performance of a vehicle when claiming fuel cells are superior to batteries due to hydrogens weight. Bottom line your example hydrogen fuel cell car weighs with a smaller motor more than a equivalent battery powered one, the question is why if hydrogen is so much lighter than a lithium battery?
    - jsight 5y ago
      Doesn't the Mirai have less passenger and cargo room than the 3 due to the inherent packaging issues with hydrogen?
  - Robotbeat 5y ago
    Why is this down-voted? It’s correct, even though it is counter-intuitive! The battery electric Model 3 LR gets more range and weighs less (while also being MUCH faster and cheaper to operate and more convenient to charge...).
- albrewer 5y ago
  I design pressure vessel for a living. At the pressures required for hydrogen, required vessel wall thickness goes up really fast as diameter increases. I commented elsewhere about the weights required for a tractor trailer - to carry the volume required and maintain the same refill range, you'd need an 11,000kg cylinder to contain the hydrogen.

Yes, obviously, but even then batteries are multiple times heavier. A fuel cell for this size is about 50kg currently, and a tank 50-80kg. The Mirai has a tank for 5kg hydrogen which weighs about 90kg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai

SigmundA 5y ago
Mirai: 1,850 kg Model 3 (Long-Range Dual-Motor): 1,847kg I am going to guess it's all the structure needed to protect the 10,000 psi hydrogen tanks.
- bildung 5y ago
  Or you don't guess, follow the link instead and find out the Mirai is a) a bigger car and b) a hybrid, complete with electric motor and battery pack.
  - SigmundA 5y ago
    The Mirai has a 1.6 kwh battery pack because the fuel cell cannot output the needed power for acceleration and to allow regenerative braking. It runs on the electric motor alone just like a Tesla. But yeah so add the buffer battery in your weight calculations needed for a fuel cell vehicle. Pretty minor difference in size, unclear how that translates into usable space: Mirai Length 4,890 mm Width 1,815 mm Height 1,535 mm Model 3 Length 4,694 mm Width 1,849 mm Height 1,443 mm Also note the Mirai has a single 113kw motor (even with buffer battery to help) while the long range single motor model 3 is 211kw and only weighs 1730kg, I actually posted the heaviest performance AWD model 3. The Tesla completely outperforms the Mirai in cost, weight, ease of charging and performance.
    - bildung 5y ago
      Nothing of this is relevant for the question of the weight of a hydrogen tank.
      - SigmundA 5y ago
        Seem pretty relevant to look at the final weight, cost and performance of a vehicle when claiming fuel cells are superior to batteries due to hydrogens weight. Bottom line your example hydrogen fuel cell car weighs with a smaller motor more than a equivalent battery powered one, the question is why if hydrogen is so much lighter than a lithium battery?
  - jsight 5y ago
    Doesn't the Mirai have less passenger and cargo room than the 3 due to the inherent packaging issues with hydrogen?
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  Why is this down-voted? It’s correct, even though it is counter-intuitive! The battery electric Model 3 LR gets more range and weighs less (while also being MUCH faster and cheaper to operate and more convenient to charge...).
albrewer 5y ago
I design pressure vessel for a living. At the pressures required for hydrogen, required vessel wall thickness goes up really fast as diameter increases. I commented elsewhere about the weights required for a tractor trailer - to carry the volume required and maintain the same refill range, you'd need an 11,000kg cylinder to contain the hydrogen.