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I think a hybrid concept of electric trains for the long haul and electric trucks for the last miles might be promising. Possibly with autonomous freight hand o

by mitjam 5y ago

I think a hybrid concept of electric trains for the long haul and electric trucks for the last miles might be promising. Possibly with autonomous freight hand over.

Retric 5y ago
I think the efficient option is electrified roads you can drive over at 70+MPH. It’s simply the evolution of trolleys, but the chicken and egg problem is huge. ~15-50kw per car/semi takes a lot of power infrastructure. Still in road charging at say 20-30c/kWh could be extremely profitable and still much cheaper than gas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_road https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_road A huge upside is in road charging is nearly perfect for both load shedding and self driving cars.
- bluGill 5y ago
  I'm still going with batteries for the short haul trips, with trains for longer. There are too many roads to cost effectively electrify them all, that means there will always be short trips (my driveway at least) that need battereis. While we can electrify freeways rail is cheaper by far.
  - Retric 5y ago
    The point is electric cars with a 200 mile range and a significant electric road network simply makes internal combustion engines obsolete in a way that even a 500 mile EV doesn’t. Semi’s are a bonus at that point. Anyway, electric rail is just down to the standard rail vs road brake down we already have. Roads are point to point without extra loading or unloading steps. Even with expensive gas and cheap electrified rail you still see a lot of long distance trucking. Long term with either electric highways or self driving trucks it’s going to favor roads even more let alone both.
    - bluGill 5y ago
      It works out until you account for economics. It is cheaper to electrify a length of track vs a length of road. Rail also implies some form of planning to make the trip more efficient (rail works best with long trains - a situation that is unsafe on roads). Rail also allows a lot more cargo per lane/track and so it a lot cheaper - but only when you can take advantage of that. And so the real analysis is a lot more complex than could go into a 100 page report (much less a comment box).
      - Retric 5y ago
        Efficiency is always a function of usage. Electric rail lines have a much lower average demand for electricity. Here the efficiency of rail actually works in the opposite direction where battery power trains and electrified roads mean significantly less total battery needs. Consider in terms of electric highway usage, a car every 100 feet isn’t that dense and get’s you to a steady state of ~20kw * 5280/100 = 1MW of power for several hours a day. Electric trains have higher peak demand vs cars, but it’s on a very infrequent basis. Of course every car isn’t EV and right now ~0 cars can use in road power delivery. But, that’s just a chicken and egg problem not an issue with the technology.

by mitjam 5y ago

I think a hybrid concept of electric trains for the long haul and electric trucks for the last miles might be promising. Possibly with autonomous freight hand over.

Retric 5y ago

I think the efficient option is electrified roads you can drive over at 70+MPH. It’s simply the evolution of trolleys, but the chicken and egg problem is huge. ~15-50kw per car/semi takes a lot of power infrastructure. Still in road charging at say 20-30c/kWh could be extremely profitable and still much cheaper than gas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_road https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_road A huge upside is in road charging is nearly perfect for both load shedding and self driving cars.

bluGill 5y ago
I'm still going with batteries for the short haul trips, with trains for longer. There are too many roads to cost effectively electrify them all, that means there will always be short trips (my driveway at least) that need battereis. While we can electrify freeways rail is cheaper by far.
- Retric 5y ago
  The point is electric cars with a 200 mile range and a significant electric road network simply makes internal combustion engines obsolete in a way that even a 500 mile EV doesn’t. Semi’s are a bonus at that point. Anyway, electric rail is just down to the standard rail vs road brake down we already have. Roads are point to point without extra loading or unloading steps. Even with expensive gas and cheap electrified rail you still see a lot of long distance trucking. Long term with either electric highways or self driving trucks it’s going to favor roads even more let alone both.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    It works out until you account for economics. It is cheaper to electrify a length of track vs a length of road. Rail also implies some form of planning to make the trip more efficient (rail works best with long trains - a situation that is unsafe on roads). Rail also allows a lot more cargo per lane/track and so it a lot cheaper - but only when you can take advantage of that. And so the real analysis is a lot more complex than could go into a 100 page report (much less a comment box).
    - Retric 5y ago
      Efficiency is always a function of usage. Electric rail lines have a much lower average demand for electricity. Here the efficiency of rail actually works in the opposite direction where battery power trains and electrified roads mean significantly less total battery needs. Consider in terms of electric highway usage, a car every 100 feet isn’t that dense and get’s you to a steady state of ~20kw * 5280/100 = 1MW of power for several hours a day. Electric trains have higher peak demand vs cars, but it’s on a very infrequent basis. Of course every car isn’t EV and right now ~0 cars can use in road power delivery. But, that’s just a chicken and egg problem not an issue with the technology.